Episode 58 - Is Film or Photogrpahy School Required to be a Professional?

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that was a lot of claps lot of claps a lot of claps a lot of claps for

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well not a standing ovation but who knows no Encore no Encore for that hey

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that brings me to a point we we did it one point get a standing ovation do you remember no I don't think I've ever

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received a standing yes you did yes you did when it was at a career day was that a career day I'm

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blanking dude we we taught some kids a few things about video and composition

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and the exposure triangle we' done that at a couple career fairs at the tail end of one of them we we got a we got a

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standing ovation so much to the point that the principal was at the on the outside somewhere in the hallway talked

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to us about it they said look I have never heard a roar of claps come from a

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career Day presentation I have a suspicion I have a suspicion and it's not a confirmed suspicion but I wonder

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if the Roar of claps and the sudden standing of multiple student bodies at

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the same time were in fact a product of it being time for them to leave our area

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because time had ran out listen I'll allow you to debate what was the true cause said Ovation I really don't

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remember the Ovation I just remember kids getting up and leaving well I'm telling you that I'm just going to I'm

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just go ahead and claim it I believe the standing throw out there was due to the uh the bang up job that we claim your

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Victory sir I like to think we did all right anyways uh who knows we might have we might I I just for whatever reason

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and it probably is due to Noggin issues I just I can't remember

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noas it the only one I ever got I don't even remember D gone it it happened good morning it's pretty cool actually um I I

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may have even taken a bow who knows dang um listen I want to start a petition to

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speak with whomever yes is in charge of this whole claiming of savings of

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daylight we're in it right now we're in it we just got into the thick of it the THC CC thick of it daylight savings for

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me the darkness is thick listen it's the amount of daylight present finite yes

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right it it is the amount of hours that it is and typically 24 due to the you know the tilt of the Earth all those

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things total uh in the winter months we have shorter sunlight yeah the Earth

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tips this this just is what it is cool with that no no no qualms there my my big qualm is when we start playing with

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which time of day these daylight hours get to be taken advantage of yes um all

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for the psychology of who knows what somebody but listen I will die on this

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hill it getting dark at 5:30 p.m. is

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worse it's for the birds is worse than it getting daylight mhm at seven I would

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rather have a slightly delayed daylight yes time than a super early I can agree with

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that Sunset case in point you know that would have really helped us on a recent trip that we took to a beautiful

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national park by the way yeah well I've got a story there that not ready to not

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ready to dig up dulge into that but hey so so but we could have left an hour later slept in a little more I dig my

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sleep dig my sleep but we couldn't do that couldn't do that mm but as a result

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of this early early Sunset yes in the winter time I find myself because you

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can't freaking do anything else like it's pitch black like any of your outdoor activities they're they're

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pretty much they're out so you're cooped inside yeah and we've even had nice

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weather so it's not even been weather that's kept us it's literally just luminance which I'm also a little bit miffed about anyways different story but

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all that to say I have I have a a terrible Habit in the winter months of Desiring and

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loving an evening coffee little bit of extra caffeine for the day little evening coffee there's something to me

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about being stuck in on the on the psychological side I I just really enjoy

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that that warm that warm drink and also honestly I

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usually start my yawning once the sun goes down so because sun comes down so yeah I need the caffeine need caffeine

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might I offer might I offer you a little bit of help what decaf coffee can I uh direct your attention

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right here to the little box beside me because as you know as uh your best

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friend and business partner for the longest time I have struggled with a little bit of a caffeine addiction as

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well yeah M spans even far beyond the daylight savings time true early yawns

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yeah yeah which is why one of our friends over at Magic M reached out with their mental performance shot offered us

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a little trial maybe give it a whirl see how we feel about it uh I jumped on it I was I was looking for something um to

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projects that you and I have at hand right and I've been able to do that with me with the magic mind mental performance shot so it's helped you cut

5:23

caffeine even it's help me cut caffeine um and we've mentioned this in episodes before but I was really bad about reaching for an afternoon energy drink

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yeah you were the energy drink dude I was the energy drink dude um and and in full transparency I still drink an

5:36

energy energy drink during the day or in the mornings right right but with magic mind they are not designed to replace

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that it's a supplementation okay and the supplementation has in fact helped me cut the afternoon energy drink nice one

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thing too with magic mind uh for our listeners is we have a very easy subscription model okay it's as easy as

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to give that a go I think you should and and I'm actually going to that's a little ASMR ASMR action take

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a little shot of mine right now to help me be a little more thought provocative on this podcast today thank you magic

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mine nice well there you go oh sorry Captain

6:49

this is your classroom we'll have to pick we'll have to pick that up because we don't Litter uh no no we we do not

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litter we we pick our trash up cuz we're not animals also my son is now a junior park ranger so if I litter he he will

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arrest true fresh out yeah freshly inducted yesterday meet and taters get us the meet and ters Jared we're talking

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today on well so this is probably a shock to some but I have a Tik Tok and

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on that Tik Tok account you're a viral Tik tocker now uh viral is relative that's also not the point of this

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episode but on on my Tik Tok or on that account on that platform I had I had a

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message somebody sent me a message on Tik Tok whoa okay yeah I didn't know you could even do that

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anyways they sent me a message and they said hey I like what you're doing I watch all your videos all those things

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I'm really wanting to get started in this whole thing do I need to go to now

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this person was specifically asking for do I need to go to school for photography um but I believe we can

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probably help answer or at least provide a little bit of Intel to also speak to film school yeah do I need film school

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or do I yeah do I need to go to school for photo or for video that's something I need to do to make a career out of

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this um and I will be first to like have a big asterisk right off the b or right

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off the bat disclaimer uh and no way am I a figure

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of authority okay or do I like

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solicit uh advice on how you should make career decisions and decisions in your

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life well I guess you have just destroyed my whole life's ethos because I have thought every I say all that to

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say every person truly needs to to be carefully considering and make this

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decision individually second that motion because I did not go to film school yeah well I didn't either um but what we can

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do is we can talk about our examples of how we have gotten to where we are today

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but we also know a lot of people who have went to school I was going to say we have friends that are Professionals in the industry as well who did go so

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we'll talk about the two routes right the big question is do I have to go to school or should I go to school for film or for photography in order to have a

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career I like it so let's talk about the first one let's talk about going to school right going to school to learn

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photography uh or to learn film tons of benefits there tons of benefits there

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for one I believe at the at the base you're going to gain a a great knowledge

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of the fundamentals of The Craft uh the history of The Craft um but you're going

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to learn a lot I mean you're you're going to you're going to school to be taught yeah how to photograph properly

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well you're being taught by working professionals right so there is great benefit to literally just the

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acquisition of knowledge you're getting it fed to you firsthand from someone who is an industry professional from the

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sense yeah I mean you're so so you're not having to go find this information yourself it's it's it's fed to you

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because you're in school to do that I think a great example of this I was listening to the team deacons podcast uh

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last week which is Roger deacons my film hero yeah yeah uh his podcast he had on a director and I forget the guy's name

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but anyways he said my director in or my teacher in film School directed boom boom boom boom boom movies and I was

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like yeah I mean so he literally got fed from the master you're automatically being fed incredibly credible yeah uh

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information from credible sources so the knowledge that you can get from it is like yeah that's that's great great

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value Great Value there but I really think maybe the bigger aspect of and the bigger benefit to going to uh to school

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to learn either of these two Arts was uh falls in the line of the connections

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that you get to make networking yeah you're all the already I mean if you're if you're in class at film school with

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30 other people I mean that's 30 other people doing the exact same thing that you're doing and if 20 of them go on to

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be industry professionals that's 20 people industry who know who you are

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what like they already know you so you are an you just you gain such a valuable

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network of connections yeah which as a side note I will say means you need to

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treat people kindly oh yeah you never know who you're going to have to call upon one day which you should do that anyways you should do that anyway it's

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kind of the golden rule but oh there you go kind of the golden rule but anyways uh yeah treat people kindly because you

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never know who you may need to call on right and and so like as a result of that not only may you get calls to to

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help and Aid on future Productions you yeah exactly but you've also got there you go a list of people

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you've worked with You' spent hours with you've worked on projects there you go so like the connections that you make

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are going to like be of of Paramount importance uh moving forward agreed I can agree with that for sure um and

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really kind of one of the other really cool things about uh film school and

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working in these team environments you get to work on some freaking cool projects yeah with a lot of really cool

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toys yes I mean film schools are already going to have gear yeah that cost a lot

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of money a lot of dollars a lot of money whereas like if you didn't go to school you're not you don't you're stuck with

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whatever your budget is you're not getting to play with the Ursa or the Airy or whatever the school has um but

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to like on the projects note you're going to get to work on really cool projects with big uh with budgets that

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exist first off uh you get you get an actual realistic like team scenario on you're working

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with crew at that point you're working with crew whereas you know the inverse to that would be like if you're starting out M you're probably starting out yeah

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you're starting out solo really lean and then you work into crew Productions or you're being hired on as crew staff but

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like you're already getting that crew experience you're getting to work on really cool projects um and so yeah

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those would be the the big benefits in my opinion of going to uh Film School

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ory school you're learning the lingo you're learning how to operate different pieces of equipment because I think one

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thing that it's very easy to fall into whenever you're you know not traditionally educated in the film world

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one of the I know you and I struggle with this and and every other solo preneur that's done this industry does

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but like I think the people that come out of out of film school they they learn and we'll talk specifically on

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gear about the things that they they like about certain tools cuz all camera is is a tool it still takes the

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Craftsman behind it but they learn what they like what they don't like they learn limitations they learn advantages of different pieces of gear whereas

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again with with a solo filmmaker or solo photographer like you're almost not stuck right but we we find

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ourselves leaning towards Brands because that's all we've known a lot of the time so I think one advantage too is just on

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the on the Practical side of using the different tools a lot of the guys that come out of and gals they come out of

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film school like they've used variety of things yeah so you can put them in any situation really well rounded yeah they're will will Wily really well

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rounded uh at different pieces of equipment so those are some of the

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benefits that uh I have spoken with other industry professionals who have went to school those are those are a lot

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of the key benefits that they all reiterate a lot of our friends um now the other route obviously is no school

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so you're selftaught um kind of what does that look like as far as self-

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teing goes how do I self te myself well so just because you don't go to school I

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mean the purpose to go to school is to learn something but you cannot you

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cannot get lazy or skip the learning phase if you don't decide to go to school like you're still going to have

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to learn the craft the method is just going to be a little different the route's going to be

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slightly different and it's going to be different for everybody but basically my degree is in computer science

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it didn't teach me anything about the exposure triangle or how to turn a camera on none of those things uh you

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went to school but didn't even get you didn't even complete school yeah I I stopped going to school well but my

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point is is like you did go to school it was not for photo video um yet here we

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both are as working professionals you know we make our living my first major was athletic training well there you go

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so but the reason you go to school is to learn and if don't go to school to learn

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these things you're still going to have to learn right you got to know the skills got you're going to have to learn them in other ways and con the best way

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that I know to do it I'm a very and this is part of just my learning style I'm a very visual but I'm also a very Hands-On

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learner that's kind of the beauty of not going to school is you're GNA if you stick with it you're going to have the

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opportunity to learn make and repeat as make a lot of mistakes yeah because that

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that's literally what you do you learn something whether you pick it up from a photographer that you know in person

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yeah something you've watched on YouTube You're an apprentice to a photographer you're a second shooter you learned

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something you then go make something photo a video film whatever you fail

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fast and then you start again and you you you you get yeah you get a Lear Lear that was M yeah MD our buddy MD shout

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out MD andoo his brother good dud I'm anxious for the day mdy comes back to YouTube I'm waiting for the day he comes

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back but I'm enjoying too right now too he's up to the antie but learn make repeat that's something that I think he

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may not have coined it but he's the one that I've seen he a lot repeat it a lot and I love it because it's well that's I

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always joke with people and it's so cliche but like photography specifically and videography is is a journey that

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does not have a Finish Line does not have a destination it's like a never ending treasure map because you can

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never like know all of it there's always something to get better at there's

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always something to learn from every project um you always find Little Treasures along the way but you never

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find the treasure yeah so you're gonna have the treasure I don't know I'm not

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there not there yet you're gonna have a lot of trial and a yeah uh to learn now

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that's cool because you're getting to learn at Hands-On um but the quicker the

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fastest that you can start building your network yes and your portfolio yes this

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this really goes for anybody in school or not school but the benefit of being in school is you already start doing

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that from enrollment uh if you didn't go to school you've got to start building that with boots on the ground yes uh but

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you're going to have to build a network and you're going to have to build a portfolio and I say and because one of

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them can't exist the other they are they are mutually exclusive they yeah absolutely are it goes back it goes back

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to an old saying that I think we've all heard numerous times but your net worth

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or your network is your net worth yeah well so specifically I've said look you

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you got to have a network and a portfolio well the reason why I say you've got to have both is because if

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you have a great portfolio the best portfolio but your network exists of

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quantity of zero and I live in a cave guess what nobody sees it nobody sees it

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and nobody can reach out and hire you because your your your networking uh has not been or your network is nothing yes

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now on the other hand it may be a little easier to do this but I still think it'd be dang hard if you had a great Network

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and no portfolio to speak of or no quality portfolio to speak of I mean what are those people like

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what are those people supposed to hire you on just Faith well in the good word of your network if you've got a good

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enough word maybe so but you're not going to get anyone business individual

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or you know anybody that you're trying to provide your services for to make a what I'm going to call a sizable a

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sizable decision or a yeah confident decision in going with you versus somebody who has both yeah they work

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hand and you've got to have a a a strong uh Network that's constantly growing

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totally agree with that and you got to have a strong portfolio so the quicker that you can build start building both

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of those yeah the better the easiest thing to do is you do everyone if they've ever been if they've talked to

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anybody you do have some semblance of a network yeah uh you've got family you've

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got the friends of family you've got recent ckers you've got a network

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whether you realize it or not now are all of them going to be paying customers of your uh new photography or new

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videography business no but they might know somebody but they might know somebody that's the cool thing about got to start nurturing that Network yeah

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while you're also building that portfolio well and and specifically on the portfolio note because I I know

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we've talked about this in the past what the the word portfolio May mean nothing

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to somebody that's brand new but when we talk about portfolio what is a portfolio and and how do I create one that is

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attractive to a a potential customer yeah so the difficult thing to understand it it I I I hate the word

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Niche yeah um you know the riches are in the niches as they say you do need

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to dwindle that down a bit and be a little more kind of funnel a little bit a little more uh poignant with what

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you're doing people are are only going to hire you for what they see for what

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they see yes uh living proof of that we started in weddings Co happened our weddings that we had booked got

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postponed couple of them cancelled all those things but we were relying on that for revenue and when that dried up or at

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least was stuck out six seven eight months indefinitely we're were like oh shoot we need to figure something out

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and we were absolutely floored and mind-boggled at the fact that businesses didn't want commercials based on our

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wedding films yeah and I'll be honest like I I know at least locally our our wedding our wedding work was like top

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tier like it was really good quality um and I know that because I mean we kept

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getting booked we kept getting booked and other other Professionals in the industry told us that however unless they're lying to us but yeah maybe

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whatever but all that say we still getting booked all that to say unfortunately businesses were not able

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to substitute themselves into okay these guys do quality video work they weren't

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able to see it for that because that's what it ultimately is but it doesn't matter if we if you and I know that I was going say they need they need to see

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that they do Quality quality video work for me yes yes I saw them do a

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commercial for my competitor or someone else in a similar industry now I know

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they can do it for me so all that to say you've got to start building your portfolio things that you want to get

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booked for a relevant portfolio so if you want to be if you want to take the

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entire Market by storm and become the elopment photographer in your area big

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money there by the way there is that's it's a fun thing too like it's it's it's intimate like you're seeing these Great

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Destinations all those things but if that's what you want to do you got I'm sorry people are not going to book you

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for their alotment if all they see on your Instagram is dogs or carss like

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it's just and I'm not saying that you can't love working with other things like I have other passions other than

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commercial work it's just but you got to find out where your money's coming from and show work that would entice more

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it's one of those things where you just don't include in your portfolio now am I saying that you got to quit taking photos of automobiles if if that's your

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absolutely not but if you want to be the alotment photographer just know can't show very few couples in the world are

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going to say you know what I love what you did to that Sky I love that Lambo um come shoot my wedding I'm going to trust

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you with my secret alotment wedding you know like so it's it's one of those things where the quicker you can start

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working on your Network and and curating your portfolio for what you want to be hired for Relevant portfolio you're

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going to be that you're going to be way better yeah agreed I like that I like that um so ways to build that portfolio

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if you're not if if you want to be an alment photographer we'll just stick with that uh that analogy there or that

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uh scenario if you want to be an alotment photographer and you've never done an alotment guess what need to go

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shoot some you're going to have to go stage a few you're going to have to bug some people go stage a few on some

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Lookout somewhere um you may have to to beg or or or reach out to other

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photographers who are doing that and maybe say hey can I Shadow you shoot I'll give you one right off the Dome

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that just hit me I know I know for a fact there are couples out there old and

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young who may want to redo their wedding pictures there you go so you may be able to reach out to people who are like

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considered renewing their vows or something like thato and you can say hey look I've got an idea let's not just go

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do this this way let's you know and you you stage an entire alotment because you got Randy and Tina ready to squeeze back

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into the tux and the dress from 15 years ago there you go but you're going to have to start building your portfolio with that alotment work so that you can

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then be booked for more future alotment games don't make Randy and Tina look good there you go so you might have to

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start free but you're going to have to start building that portfolio in some way um so I guess all of this stems from

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that question and I know that they're not the only person to ask this so hopefully other viewers are are going to be this on a weekly basis should I go to

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film school well uh basically to to kind of like sum

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it all back up um I personally know several people who have went to school

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yes uh there're two great photographers in our area who went to school for photography uh we have been mentored by

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Mark bone who went the bone Zone that's my that's my dude uh my my Northern

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Canadian brother up there in Old Canadia um I think it's Canada but uh call it

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Northern Michigan he did go to film school and he's actually talked about this he he said look you don't have to

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in today's now I do think it was a bigger deal uh maybe in past years for sure before

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social media well it just it just wasn't as accessible right photography was expensive to get into more so than it is

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today videography I mean you didn't have cell phones that could shoot 4K well and again you didn't have social media so

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like the only way you were meeting like-minded people in the film industry were to be there in the building with them yeah and that was commercials

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movies films that was like basically the gist of film usage perhaps a broadcast but um um it it is a different time and

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we know several people who have went to school yes very successful we also know people who have not went to school also

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very successful it really depends on on uh the amount of work that you're

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willing to put in but neither one of them I will I I will die on this hill

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none of these people that we're referencing those that went to school and those that didn't go to school have

25:53

been successful without uh putting in the work on the learning

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and they've not done it without network and portfolio right they just haven't agreed all of those people may their

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Network actually may be the most important I would argue that it's one maybe tied with another thing which

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would be our bonus tip yeah what's that business yes learn the business side I

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know tons of people who are great at the craft yes some of the best photographers yes some of the best people with a video

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camera yes but if if they have zero business savvy or they haven't put the

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time in to learn the business work or they've not made the hire for someone who is good at their weakness I was

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going to say there's three ways to gain that one as well trial and error which is very slow and painful right school

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which is expensive but fast yes or hire which is also expensive and fast yes but

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at some point you've got to have the business side you got to have the business side so if you are someone who

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is maybe junior senior in high school and you want to do photo video do you

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need to go to to to video or photo school or film school or photography

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school you can right but it's not NE it's not it's not it's not 100%

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necessary today now what in our opinion right you if but if you're someone whose family is heavily encouraging you to go

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to college right there's nothing wrong with college I went to college I have a degree I have a bachelor computer science I went for a little while uh did

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it for 10 years and slowly moved into this fulltime but all that to say had I

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had it to do over um and I knew that I was ultimately going to end up in photo or video or any

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industry for that matter I would have went and got a business degree I would have I would have went and learned uh

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business fundamentals that all the all the things that you learn in business school and getting a degree in

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business is going to be of Paramount importance uh to your success but don't

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discount either the the what I'm I'm going to call the greatest free University of all I'm currently enrolled

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yeah the YouTube U that's just not as targeted it's not as targeted certainly not and it and it and it can be um it

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can be again painful because sometimes you don't know what you don't know which means you don't know what to look for yeah that's true until it hits you with

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an algorithm but yeah don't discredit the YouTube you currently enrolled right well I'm kind maybe one day I'll be an

28:23

alumni maybe I can graduate from YouTube you yeah well with this craft like I said there's no destination so I'm

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saying I'm saying probably not but I'll graduate when I die yeah there you go that sound a little ominous but um yeah

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start building that Network start building that portfolio uh heck you may you may be

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able to start like making fat stacks uh by senior year in high school if if you

28:48

start doing this now start building that Network start building that portfolio photograph all your buddies drag racing

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builds yeah whatever they're doing all their race cars whatever they're doing like I said you're going to get you're going to start to get hired for what

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you're putting out there yeah Magic the Gathering tournament specialist there

29:06

you go I mean there's probably there's probably a market for that listen

29:11

there's a big market for Magic Gathering anyways that's the car game right yes nice and they host tournaments even

29:17

locally here in the small town that we live in WoW massive magic tournaments I never got into cards I never did I never

29:24

really did the Pokemon or the Yu-Gi-Oh or anything growing up I did Pokemon Yu-Gi-Oh never did uh Magic Gathering

29:30

but we have friends who do yeah and did there you go well hopefully this is has

29:36

somehow been of benefit to someone who our who is asking this question of do I

29:42

have to go to school to make a career of either of these Arts we did not right um but we know

29:51

people who have so that is an individual answer that you will need to carefully

29:56

uh and thoughtfully come to yourself you'll have to curate some pros and cons for your for your own body but like I

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said if you just have a desire to go to college I mean a lot of people think it's fun I hated school but a lot of

30:07

people think it's fun I don't know get that business degree you do you boo boo no no as they

30:14

say all those things also speaking of things that can be done Jared there are some things that our audience can do

30:20

that would massively help us here at Faith and Frames yeah so I mean right off the bat if you know someone who's

30:26

asking this question maybe they're on the fence maybe they're on the fence of do I need to go to school too send this to them it might confuse them even more

30:33

or it might help you can just send it to them and you know let the chips fall where they may yes uh other than that

30:38

give us a review uh leave us a comment I would I truly would love to know if you

30:44

are already a working professional in this industry did you go to film School comments down below did you go to

30:50

photography school yeah uh get a little battle going in the comment section maybe a bit of a war who knows get a

30:56

little debate nothing wrong with that I'll read them I'm I'm I'm anxious to see I'll read them all you're not going to hurt my feelings there there you go

31:03

other than that I mean this is the hard part no oh listen we'll see you guys in

31:09

the next one oh he didn't make that hard at all right yeah absolutely