Episode 51 - Photography “Hot takes” | Canon vs Sony | Film vs Digital

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that was a lot lot of claps a lot of claps got make sure we're synced up you gotta be synced it's good point good

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point sned good point gotta be Sanctified I don't think that's a that

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not a word similar to Sanctified no that's different that's edified that's

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bonafied he's bonafied Justified what what movie is that from oh brother warell daddy he's

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bonafied I've still got to go watch that again that's that's i' I've said this before that's probably one of my top

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three movies of all time oh brother though that's a bold take it's a

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theatrical Masterpiece top three top three I guess I don't know I guess I

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can't say a lot my my number one is Forest gun Forest is good like as far as

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my favorite movies like number one's Force Gun certainly a good movie but yeah O Brother warell certainly top

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three I need to rewatch it because I've only I've not seen it as an adult MH and I'm sure as a uh teen or even whatever

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comes right before Teen um Preen pre uh I probably didn't get some of the humor

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and some of the lines yeah well so I certainly gained a larger appreciation for it once I got into photo and video

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that was so that was a movie that actually changed the game for color grading which I'm a big fan of um it was

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one of the first films that was shot on film and then color graded digitally oh

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okay yeah also big fan uh that was Roger deacons cinematographer on that movie so

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big deacons fan over here that was kind of his uh one of his Suare fores I guess

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you could say but conceptually conceptually it's a great movie as well because okay it's a very loose

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interpretation of the odssey if you've read Homer's The Odyssey which I was also a fan of in school I have not read

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yeah not a big reader it's I mean again very loose very loose interpretation of

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of the story um but good nonetheless hey speaking of loose interpretations just a

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man trying to get back to his family the bigger story MH we're going to talk about some

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photography hot takes I mean some fighting takes hot takes yeah some words

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some of these words are fight starters to some folks folks get your gloves out

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and we're going to get your dukes up we're going to discuss them we're going to throw hands see if there's any Merit to this the

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heat uh involved with these takes it's going to get spicy hit m or it may just get dumb who

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knows uh also a possibility um but first let think our sponsor sponsor of today's

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episode of faith and Frames is none other than us Jared and Garrett here at motion Creative Media and our Blue

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Collar Lut folks if you are looking for a drag and drop plug-and playay filter

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for your iPhone footage DSLR or mirrorless camera video footage look no further than the blue collar L link is

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down the description below this is a drag and drop filter yep that's gonna add a little bit of pizzazz a little bit of spice punch little bit of heat since

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we're talking hot takes today to your video footage I would love to see the results that you get from this L you can

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send those to us let us know what you think that link again is in the description down below Jared thanks for

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sponsoring this episode thank you listen I'll just I'll be honest with you I threw it a top some iPhone footage you

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did uh for in a recent video yeah one of our recent Vlogs and uh dude going to tell you look pretty spicy pretty

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transformative pretty spicy so all right meet and taters get us to Mee and ters we're talking hot takes and apparently

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you're ready to fight I'm not ready to fight I'm a lover not a fighter I actually I guess one of my other things

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is bit of a people pleaser I don't like confrontation well then this is not the episode for you yeah well I'm gonna see

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myself out uh no but I have written down here x brand is better than y brand um

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I'm going to fill in X and Y and say that uh Canon is better than

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Sony now you would say that as Canon guy cuz the other guys on the other side of the table say Sony's better than Canon

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we'll switch it Sony is better than Canon Mighty big fighting words that's

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the take what do you think well I mean this whole discussion of of X is better

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than y when it comes to cameras we we've talked about this in a few episodes but

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in in all reality nowadays all cameras are so good yeah I don't think that

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there is actually a quotequote best brand M out there I think when it comes to cameras and the way that I think

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about cameras because I'm I'm certainly not what you would say brand loyal yeah

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I'm pretty agnostic in my camera branding I own them all I love them all I shoot them all I don't own a Sony

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right now but sh Sony I do like things about Sony um but I don't think there's

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any best camera brand out there I think that some things that we have to look at as photographers as videographers are

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what tool is going to best help me yeah get the results that I need either for

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myself for my client whatever so maybe that Sony camera that pains me to use

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because I hate their menu system um now that's that's something that that their menu system suck to us no they suck well

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to us again there's people who as a tool they enjoy it they can enjoy the menu I'm just saying listen we just there's a

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dude on threads his name's Trent he just picked up an fx6 MH and one of his first

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threads post owning theu system he said the menu system was just everybody says it but people still buy Sony cameras

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well they do produce good imagery but that's so that's what I'm saying it all comes down to is this tool going to get

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me the results that I need for my client we we've used Sony cameras for you know one of our Bigger Productions before and

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it was the tool that we needed because we were in a an area a that we needed great low light performance yep um B we

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needed cameras that were rugged and robust and that would work because we were in a d blacksmith Forge yep for a

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week so those were the tools at the time that can handle that job but yeah this

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whole idea of X is better than y I think it all boils down to these are tools right and we have to decide as creatives

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which tool is going to get me to the end result the best right um whether it be through performance I would say through

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things like menu systems that matters it does that matters that's something to that's something to consider and I

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started with Canon yeah uh and I'll say this from a menu system standpoint Bueno

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very Bueno the only camera that I would say has a simpler menu black magic is

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yes black magic I mean it's it's literally I think I think my four-year-old could probably thumb

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through a black magic menu I have an internal conspiracy that black magic actually colluded with the brand play

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school to to invent their menu system because it's it's literally four-year-old friendly but but I say all

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that to say yes your menu system does matter um if you can't manipulate the

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settings or manipulate your camera effectively it's not a good tool for you

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um so something to be aware of another thing that I think a lot of people

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Overlook is ergonomics ergonomics how that camera feels in your hand because

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my hand's different than your hand yes for instance I have I don't know if we

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had the same hands that'd be weird it would be weird so for instance our buddy Jeremy

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M shout out now that dude does not become loyal to any camera I think year

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he owned at least 12 different cameras um he's like me he loves them all loves

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them all but I will say this he he has tried Sony yeah so he's tried Sony he's

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owned Sony been in the Sony system for a bit does not like it has zero desire to go back to it and he's told me before

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ergonomics it's because of the ergonomics that big flange outside of their emount hits his hand in a very

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uncomfortable sharp it's sharp to him that matters now to other people they

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probably never noticed that in which case that's fine I think you need to even look further into like what are the

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ergonomics of this camera how does this camera F in my hand is it too heavy for instance if it's too heavy like if a lot

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of the cannon stuff's big even their mirrorless line especially if you go the RF glass don't be clunky don't to be

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clunky maybe you need to look into the fui system yeah the whole system is is going to be way smaller way lighter the

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Fuji system might not have enough grip for you it may not have enough so like

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and and yes I would agree X brand is better than ybr I think that's a very old conversation now it's not it's fun

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to chop up and I guess technically it's I mean we all have we all have fun with it on threads with each other you

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everybody likes busting each other's chops over what they're using but at the end of the day like cameras nowadays are so good yeah they're so capable I'm

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gonna say even from like 2010 to present like there's some bangers out there from every brand really yeah I have

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professionally been using for the last two weeks a Canon 5D Mark III from 2012

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something like that favorite of Fuji film from 2015 so very capable very capable I don't think any brand is

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better than any other brand they're all tools um now they do sometimes beat one

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another to the punch regarding like some of the latest tech and specs and stuff like that and it's fun on a spec sheet to be like this one shoots 60 frames per

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second but me that's no different than cell phones like cell phones and TVs boasting oh now we made an 85 in TV

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that's you know 12K display and it's 3 million OLED pixels I don't know what

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the specs are but either way that's any Tech game those are specs on a sheet and and sure they matter to a degree but

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like ultimately does this tool fit into your workflow can you effectively get the

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results that you want yeah and is it fun and easy for you to use like yeah is it

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an enjoyable experience yeah cuz if it if it's a cumbersome experience if it's cumbersome for you to fiddle through

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these menus every time you have to go out on aot that's not going to be like you're not going to want to go out and do that or thing about this especially

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with with your higher-end Brands I mean there's sometimes where cost is a factor too you may be able to afford the body

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but then you go look at some some glass that's another thing you're like o this is not the right tool for me cuz I don't

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have the budget for this that's that's why I I would still recommend buying Ed but whatever you buy by it's expensive

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to switch systems so like that's something too that you need to think about it's like okay yeah if you've already started to

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buy Canon EF glass or Canon RF glass or Nikon Z Glass whatever notice or know

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that it's a reasonably long-term investment in most cases unless you've

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got just totally Expendable income or a l of AD you can afford or or or you're wanting to adapt um but yes to to sit

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here today in 2024 and say x brand is better than

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ybr I just I I don't buy that I have my preferences and I think everyone should

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have every their preference but you should get to your preference destination based on usage um this is

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this is real quick off the dome but if you had to compare camera brands to church denominations oh we're not going

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there uh the next thing that we're going to talk about as a hot take is

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is I've heard it uhhuh I have told people this uhhuh I've told myself this

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I I don't think this statement is going anywhere but it's that gear doesn't

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matter why do you think that uh why do I think that or why do you not think it I

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I think it and don't think it you think it are you saying to not to right now I'm saying it's both you telling me to

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not to think about it the the sentiment is true yeah and we kind of talked about

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it in the first little bit but the sentiment is true gear does not matter because ultimately that piece of gear is

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nothing other than a tool right you know that's kind of like saying uh with Jason

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Knight who's a master blad Smith the master blad Smith oh he's there he's not

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the only one but yeah he's he's a great blad Smith he's the Mac Daddy are are we to say that he couldn't do a better or a

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quicker or more efficient job with with Harbor Freight Pittsburgh tools he could get it done he could he can make a knife

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with him now is there better gear for his craft that can make him do it quicker more efficiently all absolutely

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but this the fact of the matter is Jason Knight because he has the skills could

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turn out a great knife a great Blade with very level or entry level tools but

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his preference is to not use a Pittsburgh ball pain Hammer because he

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has the skills though like he's he's he's de velop those skills and ultimately gear doesn't matter no it

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doesn't matter it's more so in the skill set but sometimes it does matter the

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asterisk the asterisk and that's why I was like going my radio both situation like both uh dang that's a good movie

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too um that is a good movie it it at some point it it does come into play

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though oh yeah like there are physical limitations with certain gear for

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instance gear definit Ely matters if you need 120 frames per second yeah cuz a

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lot of cameras can't shoot 120 frames per second even even beyond the D camera though I mean you think about and this

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is kind of more prevalent in like a studio environment or if you're shooting you know commercially or whatever like

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sometimes it goes beyond the camera if you're a studio photographer like you need strobe lighting you need you need a

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prop you need backdrops you need all kinds of things so yeah the gear does matter in that case to accomplish your

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studio Mission yeah or if we're shooting a commercial versus US capturing an

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event I'm not going to take my event gear by itself to a commercial shoot

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yeah because we know traditionally on a commercial shoot we may have to bring in more lighting right we may have to bring

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in you know extra accessories audio things like that so yeah there there's a there's certainly a fine line between it

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not mattering and it absolutely mattering yeah um and that line comes does this help me shoot more efficiently

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does help me shoot quicker better faster whatever um what have you there is a point to where it does matter but

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there's also a point to where no it comes back to the holder of the gear yeah is a it's all a tool and there

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there are certain tools that can make your job way easier yeah to use a literal example of uh Jason Knight he

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could Forge an entire thing by hand with just an anvil a forge and a hammer but he don't want to but he also has power

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hamers which is pneumatic it's doing it for him like my point is you can get to

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the end result both ways yeah it's

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just sometimes nice tools M make the job a little easier there's a reason Snap-on

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is still in business also true hey but so is Harbor Freight Harbor Freight still bu too

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exactly it takes both this per got that lifetime warranty baby it takes both so it does doesn't matter but it does

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matter yeah that one's one I can get on both sides I I understand the sentiment it's it's it's people who are trying to

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encourage people to get started and not let gear be a limitation and it shouldn't be right it should not be I

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was going to say that what we do now is like so accessible yes um in 2024 here you want to get started gear does not

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matter right in that sense if your camera turns on yeah and has the ability

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to your phone turns on nowadays you're good you're good to go go rock it go

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rock it now as you get more skills I was going say it all depends on context and application yeah um as far as that

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statement goes moving on to the next oo this one's a fun one yeah editing my raw

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images versus I'm a straight out of camera jpeg shooter I get it right in

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camera yeah I don't need no editing this is really kind of came about probably

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ever since digital was a thing um and it's an older uh I think mindset

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of get it right in camera and you don't need to edit are you saying this is a boomer mentality I'm not going to say

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it's a boomer mentality but like I think you're saying it's Boomer mentality there's there still people who sit on

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this Throne that if you get your jpeg right you don't need to edit it and

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that's a finished product and you know what in some cases it's true they're not wrong in saying that that is that is a

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factual statement well yeah especially considering how subjective our art form is it is very sub

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um so didn't you have somebody like last week or something oh a few weeks ago I

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mean you know one of my guilty pleasures and and to the detriment of my bank account um Hobbies is I I go try to

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rescue every decrepit unwanted unloved camera that I can find so I hit

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up yard sales antique stores thrift stores The Works met a person at the yard sale though right metap person to

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yard sale we had a good conversation she was a photographer of of the older mentality um you know and and I'm cool

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because I I straddle the fence I still shoot film I shoot digital so like I really don't care what shoot or how you

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edit or how you don't but she got on this tangent about Lightroom and how she

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don't need no Lightroom because she shoots pure photography I don't know

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what that is but go talk to her she'll tell you more love this woman to death we had a great conversation a few good

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laughs but yeah I mean we we got on this conversation of pure photography versus how if you you edit your photos you

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don't actually know how to photography and interesting it was very

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interesting conversation but there are still people out there like I mean we see it on threads daily like there's this big debate on threads right now and

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Instagram and everything else of Raw versus jpeg straight out of camera shooting um and and a lot of Brands now

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are like utilizing jpeg recipes as we call them which is just a baked in look

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like a l like our Blue Collar L link below um a baked in look that you can put on your jpegs and it's pretty much

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finished product when it comes out of the camera right me and you both shoot jpegs yeah recipes but we also Ed it I

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actually guilty pleasure I shoot or a confession here I shoot raw plus jpeg I mean I do

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too card you know what I may want to turn and burn this JPEG and it may be sufficient but I also want to get myself

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flexibility if I want to go tweak this so I'm going to give myself the raw flexibility but

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uh yes there is an older mentality of if you get it right in

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camera you don't have to edit and I think those people are I think they come

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from a different mindset of yeah it's more of a documentary situation now can you achieve a proper exposure and good

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composition in camera and it be a baked JPEG and you not need to touch it sure

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that's what that's what you want to do I personally enjoy the editing process I do I really

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enjoy the editing process because I don't and I and I try to stay Timeless uh with my editing style uh I always

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have tried to do that but basically I want to accentuate yeah certain features

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and colors within that image or if a color is so overpowering I want to subdue it a

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little bit and and that happens a lot with our Greens in this area I typically will take my greens to more of a yellow

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and my yellow a bit more to the orange I I like orange um but if if it subtracts

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from or if it's a visual distraction I want to try and remember because to me

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as the person who captured this image saw this image fired the shutter I saw the image

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a certain way well but you too you mentioned something very important you know there there's a different mentality in the sense of that that older

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mentality comes more from a documentary approach if you think about you know photography of the past 40 years it's

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not until very recently I'm going to say the past 10 or so years maybe 15 years

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that photo editing has even become a thing digitally yeah um to where people

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are posting their edits or really focusing on their style as far as their

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edits go so like that's a totally different mentality because back then especially on film like a lot of people

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the common man would shoot their film drop it off at Kmart CVS whatever lab get their roll back that was it that was

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it the process right that was the process um the editing all happened in the lab but nowadays we do we have

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photographers that are known for their editing style y um specifically with digital so it is a different mentality

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again I fall on the fence with that because I do both um when it comes to

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digital specifically if I'm on a family trip or if I'm out for a day just

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driving around like I'm probably going to shoot a lot of jpeg because those are something that I just want to document my day yeah it's not it's not anything

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that I'm gonna throw into my portfolio um actually I posted a set on threads the other day that was are not out to

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eat I posted the restaurant a couple of other images with it those were all jpegs Straight Out camera didn't want to edit them I just wanted to document the

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night yeah um versus if I'm editing for a client or I am editing a piece that

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maybe I want to sell print of yeah um definitely going to throw those in and and shoot that raw and edit that thing

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but yeah editing versus straight out of camera uh pretty hot topic right now I don't think there's a rider wrong answer

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because what we do is so subjective no it's it's it's definitely definitely subjective um

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and I think on one of my YouTube videos a got commented and he he said he' basically gotten to the point in his

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photography he said I don't want to edit yeah I can see

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he's literally just tired of the editing process and that's fine so for his move he's starting to move into more of a

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finish jpeg situation where he doesn't want to touch it again I enjoy editing I

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do I I really enjoy accentuating or or I it's it's to me it's the attempt it's

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the opportunity that you have as a photographer to paint the image that you

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saw yeah you can put your stamp on it which I also be you talked about people just and it's true the common folk back

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then in the film they did not do this but I saw somebody post on threads a I

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don't know how he got his hands on this uh image but it was a a very uh

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iconic image of Muhammad Ali oh yeah with all the markings on it from the from the dark room from the yes from the guy who shot it and he was devel dark

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room edits yeah but I was like oh man see so people have been tweaking and he

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wanted to raise this and lower that you see plus twos and plus ones everywhere and it's like okay he was he was

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painting a picture literally um on top of say back in the enlarging days like

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he's literally dodging and burning that's where you get those tools from in Photoshop yeah so darkening place of the

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imagees lightening the other that's what I was saying a lot of editing back then happened in the lab yeah um there was no

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postprocessing it as far as computers go right um but yeah that editing certainly been around for a while but there are

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still those those purists out there I'll say this your your photo is not any

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better or any worse no I don't care what you do I'm going shoot what if you if you shot it straight out of camera

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didn't touch it with a single editing or if you edited it for 3 hours your photo's not any B better or any worse to

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me at the end of the day here's here's the situation are you happy with that image does that image reflect what you

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saw check your box and if it did then that's great great winner winner did you edit it don't care did you not edit it

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don't care I don't even want to know no I'm fine I just like the image I'm not gonna lose a bit of sleep over it I say

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I just like the image good job you here's the other one we'll finish with this one we've chopped it up a bit

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but it's still hot and people I don't know why people find eles having to

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be literally on on on one side of the fence here oh people like to argue that's why we're recording this episode

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because people like to argue that's true okay so the the last one and we we briefly handed at it but it's Phil Merc

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of digital oh similar situation similar situation to edit versus not editing I was going say these two go hand in hand

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film versus digital you've got people who will die on the hill that this film

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photo is better because it's film and I can't believe you would ever pick up one

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of those God forsaken digital cameras you got other people who are like I don't know maybe join us in the

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21st century and shoot this digital T because better y gezer um I'm

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personally I do both I say I do both I don't care well I'll take you a step further it's gonna come a shocker come

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as a shocker to our audience and and to you but I still very regularly as of

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like this morning screw both of them up yeah so I'm I'm an equal opportunity

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screw up here I like film I like digital right they're both fun to me you know what's funny it's it's really funny

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because I saw this I saw this real and this dude was making a hilarious point

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he he he had he was playing different characters and the character was this uh this film photographer from

25:49

1980 he was have you seen this no but this sounds like my kind of guy he was playing this film photographer from 1980

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talking to this snob in 20 talk oh yeah I do this because it's so

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pure the 1980 guy goes I did this because this was the latest tech this is what I had he goes so he went he went

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the opposite way so he went 30 something years into the future he goes are you still going to carry around an iPhone

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15 oh when the iPhone 47 is out or whatever doubtful it's the same concept

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though he goes he was basically making fun of the people who are like oh this

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is the pure form of Photography and then you know all this and that and he's basically saying no people shot film

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then because that's what they that's what existed they had to um they probably would have shot the new digital

26:41

stuff if they graduated from large format 10 type so it was really funny to

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see this like the the futuristic thought of no I'm probably not going to carry

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around an iPhone 15 30 years from now just because it's pure or whatever you know

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what I'm saying I will say this though like as far as not necessarily results

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because again you can achieve any results with a digital or film camera that you want today I will say this when

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it comes to just the experience part of this argument okay I personally enjoy

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the experience of shooting film more than I do more than I do digital digital

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is you know it's fun but it's it's such an instantaneous right reward I guess

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can say that for me and again it's just because the way that I grew up I mean I helped my dad restore things growing up

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but I love literally from start to finish I love going and finding a decrepit old film camera I love the

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process of buying a roll of film putting it in that camera to test functionality

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yeah I love not knowing if I'm going to get any images after I get that film

27:51

developed or or after I develop it um but just the tactile nature of of loading film of you know manually

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advancing each frame yeah setting ISO uh setting my apture metering a scene for

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light like those are things to me that experience-wise I will take a stance and say that film is better than digital in

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that sense but as far as results go no you you can get anything that you want to with either one um but I do like the

28:17

experience of film uh so for me it is better for that reason there you go that was the qualifier for you for me this is

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it this is different for everybody right it's different for everybody not everybody likes film not everybody likes old Tech not everybody likes the

28:29

heartache of getting a blank roll of film back after you've spent $15 on a roll yeah no I do I do enjoy the process

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but I'm not someone who's going to sit here and say this photo is better

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because it was hashtag shot on film right results like I said results to me can be whatever because you can achieve

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both uh for me it boils down to experience alone absolutely I think the cameras are pretty is film better than

28:55

digital or is digital better than film I don't know no I mean what do you what it depends on

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what you're needing to do now are you gonna are you g to be a sports photographer in today's climate with

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film cameras I see there is a thing there is a there is a small subset I'd

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like to be a part of that subset this uh this guy does I think his Instagram handle is expired film club yeah yeah

29:19

yeah yeah he shoots all the European soccer matches on these old things I'm like a dude now that's a Vibe there's a

29:24

guy that does it for uh University of Georgia football since you're dog fan

29:29

yeah oh paid is he paid oh yeah he's got some good work nice uh my so my dream

29:35

film Sports Photography rig is a Canon eos1n now is that looking kind of like

29:42

the it looks like a 5D basically ah okay it's like the the film version of a 5D but uh you know what I have actually

29:49

considered getting I have actually considered getting uh one of those newer Canon or

29:57

newer well it be the latest or the latest uh Canon

30:02

I've got an EF film Cannon you do yeah I've got a Rebel 2000 huh so it's a it's

30:08

an es Jordy had a one something the other day he had I think he had the one in um but I've also I met a wedding

30:13

photographer a while back she was shooting on an eos1 V which is like the brother to that um she's she shoots

30:20

weddings on film nice yeah very cool very cool so yeah as far as again user experiences and too I I do think that

30:27

film cameras are prettier than modern day digital cameras mine is Fuji because Fuji kind of they kind of have that

30:33

retro I take my Fuji out all the time and they're all the time people ask me thas my f film camera no it's just

30:38

something they do and then when I have the actual film cameras out people still

30:44

ask is it a film camera I'm like this one is thank you for asking I'm glad you noticed I'm a better photographer because of because I'm shooting on a

30:50

film camera especially if you wear your vest and then I get home and I have a blank roll so no I'm not actually in

30:59

fact but no ultimately no I don't think one is any better than the other uh I

31:05

again I truly think it comes down to I mean what part of the craft do you

31:10

enjoy doing uh I don't think you have to choose there is this huge polarizing

31:16

topic them all you can't love this one if you love this one and I just I just

31:21

that's a very Richard mentality I just don't buy into that I think radio said it best both both

31:28

to radio she said both both I don't subscribe to the film versus digital

31:34

mentality I I like it all well I'll say this too I'm poor because of it bit of I'm a bit of a a a down toe kind of

31:42

guy here in this sense um today your film is becoming digital

31:49

anyways before to do anything with it I mean I'm scanning it with a digital camera It ultimately becomes a digital

31:55

file until I create my dark room marging setup and then that now now if you go to

32:01

that then you're full film that's in the works nice that's in the works that'd be fun oh yeah it's it's GNA be real

32:07

fun you talk about mistakes oh yeah we're gonna we're gonna make quite a few of them hey you might get to see me Mark

32:13

up a few of them contact sheets like the Mike Tyson shot that you were talking about or Muhammad Ali shot my bad nice

32:19

so you get to edit after you've done your negative uh so the way an enlarging

32:25

setup works and this is totally off topic but the way setup works is like you're literally blasting light onto

32:31

photoreactive paper so that's where the terms DOD through your negative through a filter of your negative yes it's

32:38

through your filter or through a filter through the negative but that's where the terms dodging and burning come from is you're literally darkening parts of

32:44

that image by blocking light or increasing the amount of light that that photo paper receives for certain areas

32:51

that's where those tools and Photoshop come from it comes from the dark room well I've known yeah I've known dodging

32:56

and burning but I didn't realize that that part of the editing EDI part of that process was done post

33:03

development um yeah because you develop your negatives and then you're enlarging onto photo reactive paper which I guess

33:09

the only developing editing and you're putting in photo have at that point would be development times and pushing

33:16

and pulling you could tweak a little bit at that stage yeah but that's in the film development that has nothing to do with enlarging oh I got you the enlarger

33:23

you're literally blasting that negative onto photo reactive Pap by 10 or something mhm nice yeah there you go

33:30

process skip digital all together like who who cares about a tiff file right don't need it yeah we're going straight

33:36

to paper baby the way it was intended Jared speaking of uh things that we would like sent straight to us um there

33:42

are some things that our audience can do that would make us very happy podcasters what are those uh yeah leave us a review

33:49

M comments stars and bars if you enjoy the listening to it hey share it with somebody that's how this thing grows

33:55

yeah uh we can reach more people mhm that'd be kind of cool it would be cool we'd like to help as many folks as we

34:00

can we're any gram twos it's in our core values and nature I was going to say DNA but that's not true but yeah I mean it's

34:07

in our it's in our attitudes our Moxy there you go as people would say back in the day Le us review leave us rating

34:13

send this to somebody who you think you know what I've heard them talk about this and these guys are these guys are

34:19

telling them they're not uh they shouldn't have to be that polarizing you don't have to choose you don't have to

34:25

choose you you can like them all on that note Jared here's the hard part yeah uh well we'll see y'all later all right he

34:31

didn't make that very hard see y'all next time have good