Episode 20 - Economic IMpact of Tourism | with Allie bynum

0:00

Are we rolling?

We are rolling welcome back, got a new look, new look, new new place, actually not a new place, same place, we're just showing off the versatility.

Yeah, the versatility of Create Appalachia here in beautiful Johnson City, TN.

I hit my mic.

0:16

The Beautiful Create Appalachia here in Johnson City, TN.

Yes, I feel so naked without my headphones.

Well, so there's a back story to that.

Your business partner slash friend proverbially proverbially dropped the ball this morning.

0:33

Last night.

Well, I was prepping my gear last night.

I'm trying to get better about preparing.

We know that I'm a fly by the seat of my pants type guy.

So I've been trying to channel my inner Jerry Collins and prep everything and for whatever reason, my little 3 1/2 millimeter Jack bag that has all the adapters in it for headphones, it didn't make the trip.

0:52

It didn't make the trip this morning.

That's all I know.

We're short on splitters and it happens.

We figured if only one person could have headphones, nobody should have headphones, because that might look weird.

And for our audio only listeners out there, Jared's giving me the look that a disappointed father gives his son whenever he drops the ball.

1:10

It does.

It just feels so different.

But hey, maybe it'll be a good aesthetic.

Maybe you'll you'll appreciate actually seeing my earlobes.

Who knows?

Pretty cool.

Look, you got some good ears.

Got some good ears?

All right, I'm going to hit you with this dad joke because it wouldn't be a Faith and Friends podcast without.

Without a bad joke, I'm ready.

I'm all ears.

1:28

Why do fathers take an extra pair of socks when they go golfing?

So that they don't get wet from the foreground if it rained.

Hey, that's not a bad answer.

1:44

It's not the answer.

It's actually in case they get a hole in one.

Everybody wants a hole in their socks.

Very nice.

Yeah, that's that's pretty annoying when the toe is sticking out.

That's yes, but I'm like, I'm like the habitual, like come Christmas time, when that meme pops up, it's like, well, hang on boys.

2:00

Like you've just got a couple more days to to.

Socks and underwear, yeah.

I'm that guy.

Bring them on the other annoyance, like on the opposite end.

If we're talking socks here, so toe hole is annoying.

Just as annoying as the heel hole because then when your feet get the least bit sweaty.

That's where.

That's where I wear mine out.

2:17

Stickage.

I must be hard on the heels and.

Hard on the heels?

Must be.

It might be indicative of how I walk.

I bet you I bet you a PT could diagnose some sort of deficiency that I have based upon the way that my socks wear.

If there are any podiatrist is.

That what a foot person is.

2:32

Yeah, I think so.

Podiatrist out there.

Please help my friend Jerry Collins.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I have any issues.

However, that is a a very consistent occurrence.

I'll wear the heels out of my socks.

As your friend, I'm concerned well.

I appreciate that.

Yes, no problem.

That's free of charge.

Free of charge.

2:48

Podiatrist may not be.

Let's let's think this week's sponsor.

This week's sponsor of Faith and frames none other than making the return for the second week in a row.

Create Appalachia for donating this lovely space for us to use for the podcast.

3:04

I'm excited.

We've got a fun guest today and I'm very excited about Create Appalachia's Mission where Art Meets Business.

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If you need a Co working space check them out.

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3:19

Come on in.

They've got incubation spaces.

Oh yeah, they've got conference rooms.

They have labs, they have podcasting studios.

We are in the back studio right now.

We're.

In the back studio, that's that.

Then you named that the.

Back Studio.

The Back Studio.

Here.

Create Appalachia, Johnson City.

Thank you, Katie.

Thank you, Cher.

Thank you, crew.

3:35

Appreciate it.

Create Appalachia.

Jared, meet and taters.

Get us to the meet taters this morning.

We have a guest.

We do and she's actually in the tourism space.

Good morning.

Quite the quite the transition, Miss Allie Bonham.

Hello.

Good.

Morning, Miss Allie.

3:50

Good morning.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah.

So you're no, you are.

No stranger to podcast, You guys run a podcast as well.

A great podcast called Meet Me in Tennessee.

Podcast correct?

We sure do.

That's very cleverly named, yeah.

4:06

Absolutely.

She's in tourism.

Meet me in Tennessee.

Like, those things go hand in hand.

I'm sure it feels a little different being on this end of it, though, right?

Like your guest versus the host, It's got to feel different.

It feels a little strange.

Yeah, yeah, My how the turntables.

Michael Scott.

4:22

So, so tourism, what got you started into tourism?

Oh, what got me started in tourism?

I would say a love for the great outdoors.

OK, so many moons back.

I was a raft guide.

Nice, actually, right here in Irwin, Northeast Tennessee.

4:40

Yes, USA.

Raft USA.

Raft.

Of course, I frequented that place before.

Oh yeah, so that was just a way I found to work in a space that I love to recreate.

Nice.

OK, little did I know it would lead to a a career in tourism.

4:55

Yes.

That's awesome.

That's really exciting.

I know, I know tourism.

And so I've.

I've learned a lot from just following you on LinkedIn.

You share all these great statistics as to, you know, how it boosts the local economy and just all of the benefits of tourism and why it is so important.

5:13

And you know why we should constantly be looking to improve that tourism experience?

Do you have any statistics you would like to share?

I sure do.

Why don't we just dive right in?

Let's do it.

Let's.

Do this to the numbers.

I've got my notes here, so I appreciate you bringing that up Jared.

So in 2022, the economic impact of travel in Northeast Tennessee was 841,164,000 and 100 baller.

5:38

That number was just released here recently.

Wow.

So that's out of that's that's people coming in.

That is just the travel impact of Northeast Tennessee covering our eight counties here in the state that's.

Wild quick side note, did we just get some breaking information because you said that's recent?

5:53

This is recent news.

It is public.

OK, it's public.

It's probably not known by our audience, though.

I'm.

Waiting for the day Waiting for the day that we get to release some breaking news.

Unless you're a data nerd that goes hunting for this information, it's probably not a common knowledge.

Yeah, it's safe to say that you might have heard it here first.

6:10

You.

Could have, yes.

All right.

That's a lot of revenue.

Let's hear some more.

So 841 million, you said something?

Yep, that's our, that's our impact of travel number.

Now another number we could dive into that I think is very important for our community is our state taxes and our local taxes.

6:29

So from that number, we also have an additional state tax of 51,000, oh I'm sorry, 51,269,000 and 600 that again our area brings to the state.

And then local taxes, that's 31,819,000 and 800 and I mean we can also share the, the number that the industry pays our employees here in Northeast Tennessee if you'd like.

6:55

Absolutely.

OK.

That number is 205,220,000, employing 68179 folks, hospitality and tourism. 7000.

That is crazy.

So just in tourism?

Just in tourism.

Wow.

I think, I think that is something that a lot of people lose sight of.

7:12

If you're maybe if you are someone who hates crowds and whatnot you may have like a a negative thought of like what tourism does to your area.

But like when you hear those numbers of how it helps your local economy and and those dollars spent in your county, a lot of that stays in your county and and it just helps everything you know.

7:31

I think that might help change some perspectives there.

So I I want to kind of go deeper into that because as the ex year old man sitting on my porch waiting to die complaining about tourists coming in, you mentioned a lot of money there.

You mentioned a lot of revenue.

7:47

I want you to convince me where or why that's important and where that money goes because you've said some big numbers and that's fine and dandy, but what does that actually benefit for the counties?

How does that?

Actually help me.

So to a lot of folks who it is a big number and and to some people who aren't data nerds such as maybe you or I, yeah, how does that impact the community here?

8:08

So that saves our residents, our local residents and household taxes and property taxes.

Did not know that.

So when we bring in an economic impact like currently right now, Tennessee is 11th in the nation for travel spending.

That's the highest we've ever been ranked.

Okay.

So wow, I'm dumb.

8:24

What does travel spending mean?

People?

That's that's how much money people spend in the state.

Yeah.

So that's folks coming in from out of state, they might be buying souvenirs, they might be staying at our local hotels and short term rentals does.

That include Bucky's.

Bucky's Oh my Goodness the.

New Bucky's and severals probably Boots Today it's.

8:41

Probably 70% of that revenue.

My kids want to be interested.

To see those numbers.

We need Bucky's numbers if you want to dig those up the kids.

And Bucky's.

That's a whole thing.

That's a whole podcast.

We.

Cannot pass to Bucky's without stopping in.

I have.

To cause a distraction every time.

Yes, that's right.

But locally in Greenville we don't have a bucky's so we'll we'll we'll exit for now but again so that goes to help save the taxpayers yes.

9:03

Yes.

And so how, how does that help our economy?

So we're thinking we're promoting these spaces and we're attracting visitors.

So that's boosting our economic impact, that's supplying jobs for the industry.

So the more money we can bring in, the more jobs are available within the industry.

9:19

And then it's helping the taxes go down for residents and it's also helping with economic development.

So when we have these kind of statistics, we can advocate for infrastructure, we can advocate for maybe green spaces, which we could talk about later, bring an outdoor recreation into the conversation.

9:38

These types of numbers.

I mean, I can understand why some residents can maybe see it as a threat attracting visitors, but it does a lot of good things for our local communities.

Oh yeah.

Definitely.

And so you know, you talk, you start talking about infrastructure, that's where you end up with you know, better hotels, you end up with better restaurants and and you know all those things are obviously data-driven.

10:02

You know a restaurant doesn't entertain this area unless certain metrics are met.

And so all those things ultimately end up helping, which is crazy because that ultimately makes your area more attractive.

So it's it's this.

It's this.

Cycle area.

It's a catch 22, but I think one thing that a lot of locals, at least in Greenville, where we're from, we're from Greenville, Tennessee.

10:24

A lot of locals can agree that for the longest time, we didn't have a lot of restaurant choices.

No, not good ones, at least.

I mean, there were your mom and pops.

They're great, but they had the weird hours, so you've got.

Tons of lunch options, yeah.

You've got tons of lunch options, dinner, supper not so much and until very recently.

10:41

Now recently we've started getting some restaurants and we've actually got a Texas Roadhouse coming in which I think some people are excited for.

So we are even seeing some of that impact just in our little town right now from people coming and spending their money.

We are getting better amenities.

And and I'll say because I did truck it down by the counties, a part of that economic impact number, Green County ranked third on that list at 102,000,000 out of the 8 counties in Northeast Tennessee.

11:09

Really.

So we're in the top 50th percentile, So.

There there is an increase in travel spending.

So we're we're seeing it.

We're we're seeing restaurants and everything going up right now and shopping centers, like things things that people say they want are actually happening now.

11:25

So I think it's always found it interesting.

So I used to travel a lot for my previous position because I worked in transportation and and literally traveled, traveled around the nation.

And it didn't take more than like 4 words for someone to realize that I was It's probably from the South.

11:40

You ain't from here, ain't from here.

So then they would, I would say, well, I'm from Tennessee and they'd say, oh, GAT 1 Bird, if you heard of GAT 1 bird.

And I'm like, no, I've never heard of it.

But see, that's that's the thing.

Like, we take it.

We take it for granted.

We take for granted that in our case, 45 minutes down the road is this place that people travel from far and wide to begin.

12:03

And so here's the other thing that is kind of crazy that I think is due to social media and probably a plethora of other factors, people are realizing Gatlinburg's not the only place, right?

I mean, the Smoky Mountains.

It expands further than Gatlinburg.

12:18

The most visited National Park in the country.

Yeah, And so people are realizing it's like, you know what, This Johnson City's got something to offer and.

Here we are in this pocket of it's kind of a well kept secret that people are starting to find out about or it's starting to maybe trickle over because some of these places are becoming highly visited.

12:37

Well, you mentioned on the on the podcast with Austin that episode that I really enjoyed.

I didn't realize how just geographically pivotal Irwin was in regards to the AT.

Yeah.

But if you think about it, it's like, yeah, that's that's a great place to stop.

12:53

And so I mean move.

On up into Elizabeth, then Hampton, Rhone Mountain, those areas.

It's a Irwin is a hub, in my opinion, for the outdoors.

I mean, you have the Nolachucky River, you have the Appalachian Trail right there, and then you have a plethora of mountain biking.

Yep.

That's true.

13:09

That's another one that I haven't personally indulged in, but. 10 recommend.

I used to mountain bike I.

Think I would be so fatigued.

I'm so out of shape and certainly not in a mountain bike shape.

It's so fun.

It's.

Very fun.

Then you add in like the crappy videos of people like literally splitting trees in half when they wreck and stuff.

13:31

So they I've got this fear too.

Like if I lose control and splatter into this pine tree, they.

Have the full face helmets, You know you can I probably.

Should do that.

I mean, you can splatter a pine tree doing a lot of things, though.

True.

I'm just saying you just got to pick which one you want to do it with.

Actually, don't do that.

That's not not good advice.

13:47

Yeah.

That's not good advice.

Don't take that.

Knock on wood.

Knock on wood, but hey, another thing that our area offers this time of year is snowboarding.

Yeah, you know, I'm always kind of, I'm always kind of torn about this when we don't really talk a lot about our accessibility to snowboarding and skating.

But we're really right here on the corner and I think the reason we don't promote it as much is because it's in North Carolina, right.

14:07

Right.

But we're still accessible.

Yeah, we are a perfect location that's outside of kind of that high tourism destination, North Carolina to come stay in an affordable place, see what we have to offer, make it your base camp and then venture off to find some snow.

See that's kind of that's truly how like to to people when I would would constantly be explaining like where Greenville was.

14:25

I would literally say like Greenville geographically our radius.

Yeah you can hit so many things.

You're an hour from Knoxville go Vols you know like you're you're an hour from Bristol let's do these left turns you know like but but the instrument got Asheville from an outdoor perspective.

14:43

I I, I saw an article and I, I I'm going to butcher the number.

But I believe within an hour's drive of Greenville I forget how many hiking and waterfalls you could get to like waterfalls is the destination.

It was it was an astonishing number.

But I mean, that's another point.

14:59

It's like, no.

OK, yes.

So we ourselves don't have skiing and snowboarding, but it's a great place to stay, our drive.

Beach Mountain does.

Sugar Mountain does.

Yeah, like there's there's mountains everywhere.

Absolutely.

That actually gets snow.

Greenville is just y'all have so much happening out there in the outdoor world.

15:16

I mean, y'all got the AT, you got sections of the NOLA Chucky and then you have mountain biking Extreme in my opinion.

Paint Creek.

I love riding my bike out there.

Oh.

Okay see, I'll fish at Paint Creek and I enjoy.

Just go.

To the range there when they had it.

15:32

Climbing up Paint Rock.

But yeah, I've never again.

I've never.

Mountain biking?

Never.

Done the mountain biking?

Nice.

And I mean, you can really take connect those four service roads and you can make it an Asheville trip if you want to put some miles in, Yeah, which there's a whole niche community of bikers who are out there looking for that.

I'd like Paint Creek again.

15:48

I fish there, but I've never done the mountain biking.

The cool thing about Paint Creek is, and this is again going out of state, but like there's there's a couple really great restaurants at Hot Springs.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

And so instead of going the paved way, I'll go through Paint Creek and along along I think it's the French Broad.

16:05

Yep.

Back way I.

Love that back way?

Oh, yes.

As long as the road's not washed out, like that's a really great drive.

Do you?

Guys, remember the little mill that used to be there where you could feed the fish?

No, you don't remember the mill?

Where?

Actually, no.

This is the the other back way to Asheville.

Nevermind, it's OK Wrong back way.

16:21

There is a meal on the other back way though where you used to be able to go feed the fish as they were coming over the dam.

My.

Family I'm pretty sure Like whole single handedly keeps like the Tavern and Iron Horse afloat.

Your brothers like.

That place they go almost weekly I with kids.

16:38

We can't make it a weekly trip, but yeah, it is fun.

Good eats, for sure.

Also saw a note.

I'm hearing a future Christmas present for the captain here.

I need to get you a mountain bike A.

Mountain bike, yes.

16:53

Listen, so here's the thing.

I may have this faulty like view of what mountain biking is.

I'm seeing the extreme stuff with the the banked curves and the and the jumps and everything else.

Just can it?

Can it?

Can it be?

It can be relaxed can.

It be a little less than that it.

17:09

Can be there's so much to biking.

I mean, we could talk on and on about it, you know, with.

Pop tracks you can get yourself on a Little Punk My.

Experience is literally the Creeper trail, which is like 17 miles down creeper.

Trail, which kind of leans more into the realm of gravel biking.

So you.

Can grab more of a.

Relaxing ride you.

Can road bike, you can mountain bike, you can go full suspension or you can kind of hybrid between our ride a steel bike.

17:30

So mine kind of works on the gravel and the mountain biking trails, yes.

And I mean, it's just limitless.

And there's bike packing.

That's the whole another thing.

Then you can get an E bike an E mountain bike WE.

Don't have to talk about E Bikes can teach their own.

No, I mean, who is it we talk making?

17:46

Big resurgence right now.

Well, at the.

What's the shop at the end of Twitchy Trail?

The local motion or yeah.

Local motion that's, yeah.

We've talked to those guys and they're seeing a big they're seeing interest in E Bikes.

There is.

There's a huge audience.

Yeah, it was a huge, huge audience.

I.

Don't know, I feel like that tactile like manual input.

18:03

It's not going to build the quads, it's well.

It's part of the build the.

Quads of it, I feel like.

Yeah, again, to each.

Other things right there, I prefer to to earn my turns.

The same with snowboarding or you know, hiking or or things of that nature.

Called out.

Yeah, shots fired.

I was also saying to build those quads.

18:20

It's a quad builder for sure.

And it's also a nagging everything.

If you're not wearing a helmet, you catch a patch of ice, which is what I did.

Anyways.

So you're in tourism obviously I'd say one of the biggest hurdles with tourism is, is getting literally the word out, getting, getting it known to as many people as possible what all they can do.

18:45

And and I've noticed that you're you seem to be particularly involved with outdoor recreation.

That's my passion.

My values align a lot with outdoor recreation, so my works and tourism.

And while outdoor recreation is a sector of that, it's not the full spectrum.

19:04

But that's where I tend to to find my my joy and purpose.

So how did you end up?

Why is that your passion?

I I can think of tons of benefits physically, mentally, all kinds of all kinds of benefits to outdoor.

19:19

Why should someone be excited that our area offers so many outdoor recreational opportunities?

You know, you start with the physical and mental benefits.

I mean, for sure.

I mean, they're just, they're endless.

And we could go on and on about that.

I think my passion is directly correlated with outdoor recreation because I I have children, you know I want to I want to keep these places around for future generations And to have.

19:46

Yeah.

And to have these these spaces not only like our public state parks, but just green space.

You know Johnson City has over 20 parks here.

There are certain barriers to access that a City Park can can help alleviate for the community.

So having these spaces where our children and any of us can just go and recreate and just reap those benefits of nature.

20:08

I just think that's where my passion is is born from Get.

Old Bottom and E Vitamin D I'm missing today.

It's all right.

Vitamin D, yeah, it's there's there's so many benefits you you get the health of just physically moving, you know getting off the couch, as we like to say a lot of.

20:25

Sunshine, folks.

And some sunshine, Man.

For sure it's.

It's definitely good for the Mentals.

I know we we talk about this quite a bit because in media specifically, sometimes we spend many hours at a desk editing in front of us and right.

Behind the camera, in front of it or behind the screen even?

Behind the camera, there's times personally where I have to get out of my den.

20:44

I call it my editing dungeon sometimes because I've got to get out of there and it just go down the the Dang driveway to the mailbox.

Just get out.

And as a as a creative, I think there's a whole another tie to that because like we love what we do.

So like looking at those screens, it's like we realize it's daunting, but also like, I love to edit, you know?

21:00

And I love to create, yeah.

Well, but here's the cool thing.

There's a lot of good ideas when I'm outside, when I'm, when I'm running, when I'm riding my skateboard, whatever.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

So, so tourism again we, we, we briefly touched on it.

21:17

It's it's about letting people know either either the locals or reaching externally so that you can be a bigger draw.

It's it's it's just a matter of getting the word out.

Obviously with social media things have changed.

You know, traditional advertisement may have been radio ads, newspaper ads, pamphlets, brochures, TV ads, now income, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube.

21:43

So like there are all kinds of yeah, but that's where the youth is, right?

How have you guys seen the pivot in media mediums and and what are you guys doing right now to?

Yeah.

With the mediums, I will say we do still use some traditional methods.

22:01

So we do an annual visitor guide and within our industry, we still have high traffic coming to those Tennessee welcome centers.

So having a magazine and sometimes pamphlets for promoting new programs.

For instance, we have the new Tennessee Night Sky program we've launched and getting that out via a brochure is crucial part of the the marketing touch point.

22:21

But other than that heavily, heavily do we use the digital platforms.

I mean I can go into the specific channels we Facebook and Instagram that's that's the baseline of our marketing efforts.

So we we have our largest reach on those two channels.

And then LinkedIn for AB to B platform, that's another audience that when you're working in the industry, we want to speak with other industry professionals, see what they're.

22:44

Doing this, this came to be was LinkedIn.

Yeah, I discovered you and.

That podcast via LinkedIn, actually.

And so, yeah, that's a prime example.

It is.

And so you know I, the the, the media guy, you know in me is like, OK the the, the stationary is great.

23:04

That's when they physically get here.

You got to get them interested first, right?

There's got to be some sort of draw pool drawing.

To those Tennessee, so.

That's where I feel like social media in some cases has an upper hand and exposure and awareness.

And on that, can I just share a quote maybe?

Absolutely, share it.

23:20

And before you share the quote, I'll say this, as far as the Tennessee visitor centers, they are getting nice.

Oh, they are.

They're getting super, yes.

Well.

We're seeing this influx of traffic, right.

So we're seeing the impact of the economy that tourism can bring.

So now we're able to invest into these that our infrastructure I.

23:36

Enjoy travel centers now because they're they're getting pretty big.

They're.

Exciting and they're immersive.

Visit Johnson City just opened their new visitor center and if y'all haven't been highly recommend on your way out.

It's in a very immersive digital experience.

Just.

Write down the little thoughts and doodles, OK?

It's just down the road we'll.

23:53

Have to check that out for sure.

Hit us with a quote.

Yeah, So I kind of want.

I'm bouncing back between tourism and out the recreation.

Right they go.

Hand in hand, they do them all in.

Maybe unfairly, but go ahead.

And we talked a little bit about the health benefits of the outdoors.

24:09

But I also wanted to say that here in Northeast Tennessee, the outdoors are such one of our biggest assets.

We have the Appalachian Trail.

We have over 200 miles of the Appalachian Trail in the state.

We have our rivers with whitewater kayaking, we have mountain biking and we have access to snow sports.

24:25

It's just endless.

So I think capitalizing on the asset is one of our biggest attractors, but then equally maybe we can talk about it a little bit later is sustainability.

And so this quote came to mind.

It's Luke and Martinez, a wildlife and preservation focused photographer based in Florida.

24:48

I saw this on LinkedIn actually, and we're talking about bringing awareness to the outdoors.

So you realize that the biggest threat to the place is how disconnected we are from it.

Before we can talk about how to protect it, you have to get people to fall in love with it.

25:06

And he said that on conservation through captivation and he's a photographer.

So we're talking about these mediums, is how I'm relating this quote.

We have to make people aware of these places before and during teaching them conservation ethics, yeah.

25:22

So one, so on that, on that note, one thing we'll just call it a byproduct you can, you can judge whether it's good or bad.

Take Max Patch for example.

Yeah, I'd say 10 years ago the foot traffic on Max Patch was probably pennies on the dollar so to speak as to what it is today.

25:43

And so like no different than like Carver's Gap, right.

Those were known to some but not by a lot.

But as a as a result of social media, people are like, Oh my gosh, that's great, let's, let's go.

So the the only downfall that I can see is is.

It's a little crowded at times it can get.

25:59

Crowded, but I think.

I think people don't know what they don't know, and so they can be somewhat destructive to what is the existing beauty.

You know what I'm saying?

Whether it's foot traffic, it's it's leaving trash, it's whatever, right?

There's there's just things that I think can come with increased foot traffic.

26:19

Yeah, I.

Think there has to be some etiquette involved with with visiting these places Because we do.

We want to preserve and we want everybody to come and enjoy them, Yeah.

I want my kids to enjoy it.

Right.

We.

Also want to keep them too, but again going back to just sheerly from a revenue standpoint, think of what like let's say Max Patch specifically has done for like Hot Springs.

26:36

With all the visitors that Hot Springs get because you those two are kind of close to each other, you can whip over to Hot Springs fairly quickly from Max Patch.

Same thing with Carver's Gap and Elizabethton.

Elizabethan gets a lot of through traffic going to Carver's Gap.

That's a.

Good.

Point.

So those places not only are visible just to see the sites, but to actually see the journey on your way and then the little towns that are along that journey.

26:59

Well, I mean, you've got you got the hostel down from Rome Mountain, and if you've never stopped at the little Mexican restaurant, I'm, I'm drawing a blank on the name.

It's literally right off of, off of your first right turn, right?

And Smoky Mountain Bakers is a good pizza pizza joint if you haven't been.

27:16

It's Fire, Baked I.

Mean.

It's It's a gym.

Riding that down, we frequent Carver's Gap a lot.

We we It's a really easy hike and go up.

For the kids, Oh.

It's great.

And the view you get because you know that's where that's where I like to be.

27:32

I like there to be a payoff of some sort at the end of this thing, right.

I love to get out, but I I personally need that will carry that carrot dangled in front of me.

You know, I need that waterfall.

I need that lookout, I need that that glove or something, right.

That's motivation.

I know what's at the end of this and it keeps me going.

27:49

You can see for literal miles, literal miles into North Carolina into Tennessee from Carvers Gap.

So yeah, we're we're there.

It's.

Majestic.

Oh yeah.

And then that's the ATI mean got the.

ATI mean Carver's Gap is just such a staple being born and raised from northeast Tennessee like like you said years ago, you'd go up there and you'd have the whole mountain to yourself.

28:12

Oh yes, which is nice.

It is.

It is.

It is.

But then not to gatekeep that and to share it with others.

It's finding that balance of, you know, there's kind of this coin we use as over visitation and after the pandemic we saw such an influx in folks visiting like Rhone Mountain and all over outdoor national parks and and all the trash and just trying to promote a message of conservation along with hey, come visit us but also let's respect our yeah.

28:40

Let's respect our public.

Places, Well, I.

Mean.

It's kind of that.

It's kind of that.

I don't call it a golden rule, but it's like, you know, leave the place better than you found it if everyone attempted to do that.

Leave No Trace.

That's We try to combine a message of Leave No Trace when we're sharing blogs about hikes and waterfalls.

28:55

You know, just the.

Basic rhodendrons and Oh yeah, it's like the benefit of getting to the top finding a a little spot to just exist.

Just be just be still exist.

Let the wind hit you.

29:13

It's yeah the the inspiration that can come from that, the the reset that can come from that well.

But there's a.

Bit of community up there too.

One of my favorite things to do whenever we're up on Carvers Gap.

I just love meeting the people who are, like, overnighting.

Oh, that's true.

On top of the mountain, like they're in their little overnight tent.

29:30

They've they've whipped it out of the backpack.

I'm like you're in for about 40 miles of wind beating you all night, and I want to know why.

Yeah, how do where?

Are you from?

What's your story?

Because that's so interesting to me.

You.

Have the AT hiker season in March where you're meeting folks from all around, all around the world.

29:46

That's true.

Such a cool community.

Such a cool community.

So is that generally in order to make the transit, is that generally when they're in this area is in March?

That is when I I tend to personally pass a lot of the AT hikers coming up from Georgia, they're.

Passing through.

Usually in March, yeah, as soon.

30:01

As it warms up just enough to start it to where they can finish it and where maybe not be in snow by the time they hit it in Maine when.

You're meeting folks from New York, from California, just anywhere in the world have come to to hike this trail.

One of my one of my childhood friends and teammates, Noah Nazery, hiked the whole thing.

Oh, Noah.

30:16

Noah.

We need to get Noah on the.

We do need to get.

Noah on the podcast that dude's building the Timber Frame House now he literally biked from C to C He is.

He is.

The epitome of this is there's nothing related to tourism, but like, it's it.

30:33

Noah could have his own show because.

Noah is tourism.

I'm friends with his wife, Kayla.

Because they hiked together, yeah.

OK, so they're building a timber frame house.

Oh yeah, And and that doesn't shock me at all.

Y'all should.

Get them on the podcast Noah is tourism.

Noah is.

All kinds of things.

30:48

Noah is a lot and.

Here's the thing with Noah growing up with him, anything the the kid picks up to do.

He's great at it.

He's.

Gonna be good at it, he's.

A I.

Just have to say, they're great role models for sustainability and and outdoor recreation in the country.

Yeah, we need to get him on there.

31:05

What would you say the biggest pain points and issues are facing tourism?

Is it, is it literally awareness?

Is it education?

Is it literally just getting a matter of of getting the word out?

I mean what what issues plague the tourism industry?

31:23

That one I've got to think about because again, I tend to have a little bias toward outdoor recreation, right?

So from my perspective, I feel like we do a pretty great job at attracting traffic with with our our message and tourism.

And it's it's our mission to do so, to bring people here and to promote economic health for our community.

31:44

So I might speak from a more personal perspective, but to me a big pain point is just equally promoting the conservation and sustainability and helping to unite, you know, a local perspective with a visitor perspective and seeing that if our community flourishes, then visitors will come here and fill that right, you know, and they'll have a sense of place because we have culture here.

32:10

Oh yes, we do.

Absolutely.

I'm glad you pronounced it appropriately, Appalachia.

Again, absolutely Appalachia.

So do you, do you get a lot of backlash though just specifically on like the conservation aspect of things?

Do you get a lot of backlash, whether it be from like local legislation from local residents, What seems to be the barrier there for maybe the the awareness and then the care towards conservation?

32:36

Yeah.

Or could it be funding like it?

Yeah, I know, I know a lot of this stuff is state funded, right?

And so it's like, how does, how does it operate right and so?

Yeah, funding can be a barrier, but you mentioned the backlash.

I would say like for instance, we talked about the the podcast with Austin.

32:52

Yeah, that kind of raised a bit of a stir with the locals because we're promoting this place that has so long been kept a secret.

And then I think just sharing the message of the benefits, Tourism boosts the local economy.

Yeah, like the taxes and like infrastructure, yes.

33:09

And long term growth plans.

And I try to encourage, when I get that feedback from individuals, I try to encourage a message of, hey, get involved in your local City Council meetings.

You know, tourism is here to help boost the economy.

And if there are triggers or issues that you're passionate about, you you have a voice, you can speak on those issues, Yeah.

33:28

You can come to City Council, Richard.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, we'll.

Just say Richard is his name.

Voice your opinion.

So here's the thing, Though I would, I would probably guess without being in the space, I would probably guess statistically and numerically those are probably true with the exception.

33:44

The issue is they're probably the loudest, right?

The squeaky grease.

Or the?

Squeaky will gets the grease and the.

Most willing to sit at the house I.

Say most people, like if polled, would be in favor of tourism.

It's the people who.

34:00

Unfortunately, I'd say it's the people who are.

Richard are probably.

The most vocal they're the they're the first ones to hit in the comments of of a Facebook post.

Whatever.

But no if if you only understood how you benefit from it.

34:16

Right.

So encouraging that message of understanding and again I can't preach enough just I think if we can continue to grow our sustainability efforts and message that while we're promoting these places, we can also say, hey we're planning for sustainable growth.

And that's that's just where my, I feel like my work is like, I want to help grow that message of let's grow sustainably, you know, well.

34:40

And I respect that and and again, for the ones who are naysayers, they're probably complaining from the Aubrey's Bar that was built because of the revenue from tourism.

So yeah.

I mean, so here's the thing though.

And we've seen it there, there.

There are no shortage of statistical proofs here.

34:56

But like, you can grow too fast, yeah.

Yeah, to.

Where you can't sustain it, the infrastructure is not there.

You can't house the people.

You can't.

I mean back to Max Patch you know that I don't want to see that happen to Rowan Mountain like I would I would hate to say that we over promoted a place and and we didn't equally encourage the visitors and educate them to to to.

35:17

Respect it, yeah.

Yeah.

So, so you know you your your passion is outdoor and I I I think that fits perfectly with where we live.

It kind of goes along with the phrase of grow where you're planted, right.

Like So what is our attraction, what is geographically where our towns and cities are?

35:34

What is our draw?

Well, it is our outdoor, yeah.

Absolutely.

It's.

The beauty, you know, it's all that it can offer you from.

From a Serenity standpoint, it's.

Our outdoors and it's our music.

I mean, that's what.

Makes us.

Our latching, I think.

Yeah, absolutely.

35:51

Our.

Bluegrass and our mountains.

Well, I mean, here's the thing.

I mean, I've traveled out West.

I know you've traveled Allie, obviously you've traveled.

And I've got a question for you here in a second related to that.

But I can honestly say one of my favorite favorite sightings and my lifetime is whenever I'm coming back over the mountain and I can see it just looks like a painting it.

36:12

Gives me chills thinking about.

It I get chills like it looks like a painting every time I come back home and and I've been to some beautiful places and I've seen the the Canadian Rockies, I've seen some cool things out West.

But every time that I come back, I'm like man.

Nothing beats coming home.

I'm.

Telling you we we we spent one of our anniversaries in Glacier National Park out in Montana.

36:33

Great.

Love that vacation.

When we got back, all the family and friends, they're like, what was it like?

What was it like?

And it's like, no, their mountains are bigger, they're huge, and they literally just look like they jut out of a flat plane.

Like you're just driving and all of a sudden here's this like.

36:48

Those tectonic plates just merge, yeah?

And it's like, and they're pretty.

But here's the thing that I appreciate about hours.

I saw so few deciduous trees, everything's a conifer out there.

It's an Evergreen, which is pretty year round.

But like I'm sitting thinking from a fall perspective, you've probably got like yellow, maybe a little orange, our fall.

37:11

You've got every spectrum of the color, because this one's not.

The oaks are going to stay green longer and your maples are going to be this beautiful orange you.

Have a gradient.

Oh my.

God.

And then that gradient goes into the sky.

That's blue and purple and orange and yellow and it's just.

Not going in.

There's something, there's just something about the shapes of our mouths.

37:29

Yeah, there's some of the oldest in the world, and you'll have.

The shape refer to.

Austin Finch for that exact number.

Yeah, but the Appalachian are some of the oldest, you know?

Yeah, there's stories just.

While they're smaller, they've worn down a little more.

No, no, no.

They remember that I was.

I'm going to have to research this because I was so floored, he stated.

37:45

That they had, they've been formed like went away and reformed all within this time span that the Rockies have existed.

It's just like they've like they've.

Been very young, which is why they're larger.

And they're beautiful, yeah.

But we have some folklore in ours.

38:02

We got some old ancient stories to be dug up.

And you gotta feel that when you're here, Yes?

Our mountains are like a sweet little old mammal.

Yeah, she's soft.

Making cornbread, making cornbread.

She's soft.

She speaks softly to you.

She might sing a little off key in the church choir.

38:20

Yeah, the man, she's she's just a beautiful old Appalachian queen.

She.

Welcomes you with the warm embrace.

There you go I.

Like that.

I like that a lot.

So you know, we touched on the benefits of tourism and and what would be if you if you had one thing, a misconception, A misunderstanding, something that you had the opportunity to set the record straight.

38:45

What is something that you that you find yourself constantly combative against with with regards to tourism, maybe it's outdoor recreation.

What would be like the one thing you could correct?

Because for instance, for me, just locally in the area, again, I spent a lot of time traveling for work.

39:02

The big stigma, we've talked about it no less than 400 times is like, we're all dumb.

We're running around barefooted, probably married to our sister.

All these things that's that's sometimes the the stigma of Appalachia hillbilly and whatnot.

39:17

But oh man, that's if you if you only knew the gym that it.

And maybe you shouldn't know.

Maybe we should just keep it that way.

Whatever, you know.

What, 99.99% of us marry a sister, run around barefoot, and we have our washing machines on the porch, yeah.

Keep that in your mind.

No, I would love for people to just know.

39:33

Like, no, that's not it.

Oh, it's it's.

That's such a great place.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what comes to mind.

If I were to set the the record straight, what?

Makes you want to fight.

Conservation, sustainability, I think that's a personal conflict within being in this industry that I face almost daily is not over promoting the places that I love.

39:57

That's just something that's a a value driven struggle that I'm constantly trying to remind myself we can promote, promote, promote, but we have to also conserve, conserve, conserve.

Striking that balance has got to be difficult.

You know, I see the picture all the time on Facebook of of we'll say Gatlinburg, right?

40:15

Strip.

You see the photo from like, the 1970s.

There's the singular 2 Lane Rd.

About 3 buildings, yeah.

And.

Now it's like, oh man, which it's good, but there also has to be some sort of break point to where.

It has to be a balance it.

Can't it can't.

It can't keep anymore.

40:31

Accountability.

I mean, I I appreciate Gatlinburg for what their community does, but me personally, I rarely visit the Smokies because I don't want to drive through Gatlinburg to get there, Yeah.

I I personally, as someone who I guess has taken it for granted, live 45 minutes from it, whatever.

40:49

I pretty well avoid the the the holidays.

It's not any of the any of the known events like I as a local I suppose is what I could consider myself like.

I'll go.

I'll go in the non busy seasons, right?

Well, or if we go to Gatlinburg, we just typically stay way the heck on the outskirts.

41:07

Yeah.

Like we'll stay in the Where's Valley area or like way off near oh, golly, I can't think of the little town right now, Townsend.

Yeah.

Those.

That's another one.

Kate's Cove has been.

Kate's Cove.

And I just, I don't want to see us become that right.

Yeah, you know, I.

41:24

Love.

The people are enjoying it.

But again, and the biggest thing that I've seen with Kate's Cove just personally is is I think it's a lot of people just, yeah, again, they don't know what they don't know, right.

And so I've literally seen, thank God there was a park Ranger upside.

But I literally saw a father run towards few bear Cubs to take a close up with their phone.

41:46

What?

An idiot It's.

Like the Yellowstone bison story, if you all remember you.

Can't see Mom.

Mama sees you and she doesn't know that you just want a photo of these and.

She will eat.

You.

And so it's like, again, the park Ranger prevented it from being anything that it could have been, but it's just the little things like that.

42:02

It's like no, no, no, no, don't, don't, don't.

I'm sorry, but beside the fact that you don't live here, where's the common sense there?

I would say it's not existent.

I'm.

Sorry, it comes back to like we got to educate folks because they didn't grow up as we did.

We.

Did.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, but if I'm in Alaska or in the Antarctica, I'm not going to, I'm not going to go approach a polar bear well, but.

42:21

I think a lot of these people have, have, and we the cities are big enough now and they're old enough now.

I think a lot of people have only ever known Skylines.

Like they've only ever known the concrete jungles that can be associated with cities.

And so they've never, literally, they've literally never experienced these outdoor recreations.

Good thing I stem Old hillbillies know to stay away from bears.

42:39

I'm.

Just so thankful we live in a place where we do know the countryside.

Oh yes, I yearn for the countryside.

Yes, I go to a city and I feel trapped.

I tried to travel to LA for work several years ago, and the people in the LA office for the company I worked for, they said, did you take those photos of the of the of the stars?

42:58

I was like, yeah, she goes, I've never seen stars.

I was like, how sad.

What?

Yeah, it's all because the light pollution, yeah.

The smog at.

Night.

Well, it's it's smog, but it's also, I mean you think about all the street lights and everything else like it.

It literally pollutes the air to where the the stars can't be seen.

43:18

I can do big.

Cities for about two days.

After two days, I I feel a little cramped, Yeah.

It's so again, I think a lot of it comes from people and it's good, right?

They they they've seen something that attracted them to this outdoor space.

We just got to do a better jobs and some way of, yeah, somehow educating them so that everybody can enjoy it.

43:37

Educating, holding, holding folks accountable.

You know our legislation.

Yeah, yeah.

So off camera.

OK, you.

Gave us a little insight into your previous life where you were actually a Van Lifer.

That is something that we're both very jealous of.

43:54

Yeah.

Personally, I think that would That would be an awesome, an awesome way to spend my days with my family, which means you've traveled quite a bit across the country.

Obviously you have a yearning for conservation for the outdoors.

You've seen a lot of places.

44:10

But why specifically did you choose to come back to this place and conserve, preserve, educate, and want to attract people here?

Because you said for a stint you lived in New Mexico, correct?

Why not New Mexico?

Why?

Why did you not want to bring people to New Mexico?

44:27

Why do you want to bring them here?

Because you've been all around.

Yeah, That's a great question, Garrett.

Thank you.

A few different reasons coming back to Appalachia.

You know my dad's here, so that was a big reason.

44:43

The.

Roots where your roots were.

The roots having a child and and realizing that I'm a role model for her future and and what's their generation is going to grow into.

So coming back to a place where I want to strengthen my roots was very important as a mother And also this area.

45:02

I just feel like we have so much room to progress.

So in a state like New Mexico there are several factors why I decided to move home.

Just the calling for Appalachia is always there, right?

It's in my blood.

Which we discussed previously I.

Grew up here, but also in New Mexico has a lot of legislation that's very progressive in protecting and conserving.

45:23

They have several acres, acres of wilderness areas that are already protected.

So I think coming back to Northeast Tennessee, I feel like there is a lot of work to be done and I feel like my passion would be, I guess have more room to grow and flourish here with all the work that does need to be done.

45:43

Yeah.

So you've seen what New Mexico has done then and you're you're wanting to maybe bring some of those positives to the area as far as like progressiveness with with the legislation and stuff?

Right.

I think that could be an example.

As well as other states like Colorado, you know they have an office of outdoor recreation.

45:59

There's several nonprofits out West that advocate for outdoor policy and just something that I don't even I rarely hear mentioned in our.

I don't think it is mentioned.

I think from a sanction standpoint you would probably, you know, just off top hand like as far as non developable land, right.

46:19

If that's even a word would be like you know the National Forest.

Whereas like OK, even I'm thinking of like driven down the strip in Hilton Head.

There are tons of signs and they're they're marked from the road, this land is protected, will never be developed on.

46:36

You know, it's it's like OK that's that's great because how easy would it be for Hilton Head that's blown up.

Oh yeah, To be like you know what we could put more hotels here.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's so easy to to understand.

The.

Profit concept, absolutely.

But to think who built these trails?

46:51

Volunteers.

We think about the Appalachian Trail, who maintains those trails volunteers, right.

So we can, we can think of infrastructure in a profitable stance and then we can think of conservation in a sustainable stance.

And I think Tennessee could use a lot more support on the sustainable side does.

47:09

That answer your?

Question, it does, it does Again, I think.

I think at the base of it, you were able to experience maybe some positives from other areas and how they are moving forward with that type of thing and you just want to see it here, Home it's.

Eye opening to experience other cultures outside of our our state boundary, right.

47:25

We go there and we come back with new perspectives, yeah.

Well, and then, you know, just on a purely like surface level, we have a good dose of all Four Seasons.

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

You know, you hear, you hear people like Alaska's great, but they have like 9 months of winter and.

47:43

Yeah, I talked to an.

Alaskan last week.

Yeah.

And so, you know, the opposite is the truth with Florida, right?

And then we grow.

Corn in solid and liquid forms.

There you go.

We have one of the longest vegetable growing seasons.

47:59

I don't know what that is, but it's one of the longest I believe, I think.

It's from what basically early April through August slash September?

Yeah, and and honestly, a lot of your.

That's what a lot of.

It is like, so with gardening you're going to, you're going to plant this particular thing late.

48:14

We're going to plant this particular.

Thing late because it's more of a cool weather.

It can't sustain itself in the summer.

But yeah, you get to do it all, and we've got our.

Soil.

Soil and.

There's a little Appalachian barefooting.

Maybe that stigma holds true.

Good.

For barefooting, it's good.

48:31

For folks.

I'm.

Grounded.

There you go.

That's a new thing, right?

At least the term grounded in my pretty new.

My daughter says, Mom, let's go barefooting.

There you go.

There's nothing like the feeling of just dirt and grass between your toes.

Yeah, feels good it does.

Especially when it's like a little bit damp right after the sun goes down after.

48:49

A good rain.

Like, Oh my gosh.

But so yeah, we get a great even dose of all Four Seasons like and and here's the great thing, I'm, I, I I don't like change.

But at the same time there are some things that you just kind of get tired of.

And the great thing about Tennessee weather right when I'm getting sick of winter, guess what?

49:05

Here's spring.

You know what?

Yeah, you might get.

Earlier this week it was 2°, today it's 65.

You know, and it's the same thing with like, summer.

It's like, man, I'm, I'm sick and tired of going out and sweating.

Oh, here's our gorgeous fall.

49:21

Or you can always Bob up to the mountain, it's 15° cooler.

That is very true.

You can go to Carver's Gap and freeze to death in the middle of the summer.

Bring a hoodie.

Bring a hoodie and a windbreaker.

So, so that's that's that's one of the biggest when I described the area to somebody like look I just, I just love that we get a great in most cases even dose of all Four Seasons sometimes spring may be two weeks, but we had a great spring this last year.

49:47

Oh my gosh.

We had probably the longest spring, spring weather that I could that I can remember the.

Wildflowers are beautiful, you know, we don't have harsh winters, which is something I prefer.

I prefer really harsh winter.

But you know, to most people that's probably a 'cause I.

50:03

Do I like again, I like, I love the even dose of all four.

I I do eventually get tired of it and I'm ready for something new and dag on it.

Here's the next season, you know, it's just kind of how it works here and.

Wait about two days and you'll get you'll get that next season coming right around that.

Fall's the best.

I'll fall as far the best.

50:20

We got the apples.

We make apple butter as a family then.

So there's apple pies.

And I guess I really like apples.

I didn't realize that.

It happens.

So how can how can people help get involved?

50:38

Because at the end of the day, again, I think the the vast majority of residents want to see the area be sustained flourish, all these things, how can we, how can we help in in facilitating tourism and and outdoor recreation?

50:57

Yeah, I tried to think about this question before I came in.

I just because I do think it's important for folks to get involved.

So I I just compiled a little list I'll just kind of skim through if that's OK.

There's a lot of words there that looks like more than a little list.

I'll I'll skim.

No, you can read them all.

51:13

We don't care.

OK.

OK.

So let's see.

So number one, I think for folks in our local community and visitors coming to the state as we want to practice Leave No Trace ethics.

Yeah, that's kind of a good handbook.

Just to go to, like, how I've never been outside as a visitor to Tennessee.

51:28

How can I be responsible?

Yeah, you know, and keep these places around.

How?

Can I not get eaten by Mama Bear?

Yes.

Do not go after the bears.

Don't do that.

So I'll just run through.

Leave No Trace ethics real quick, which you can also Google, of course.

Plan ahead and prepare.

Travel and camp on durable surfaces.

51:45

Dispose of a waste properly.

That's a big one.

Leave what you find.

That's a really big one.

You know, Pack it in, pack it out.

Minimize your campfire impacts, respect the wildlife and be considerate of others So it's pretty pretty basic.

But to someone who may be coming from that cityscape and not be familiar with wildflowers, you know, don't pick them.

52:06

Leave them for others to embrace the beauty.

Pollinators, appreciate it, yeah.

Leave it some cities.

I've seen their trash policies.

Not the best.

Well, so on the.

On the say leave more trash.

The leave it thing though, like I just saw an article the other day and again I think it just speaks to I'm born and raised here.

52:22

I did not know this.

I've seen the rock stacks right along the.

River, please.

To love humanity, stop stacking rocks.

Well, I was like.

That's cool.

Never knew what it was and but then I saw the negative impacts of like the microorganisms and stuff like that and I'm like that makes complete sense you're.

52:38

Not going to make me believe that an alien stack those, no matter how many different ways you do it.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know what, again, I don't know what the, the motive was.

But I I've heard now, I've been exposed to the facts of the negative impacts of doing that.

It's like don't leave that wrong.

And that's something you've learned through being educated about it.

52:53

Otherwise, You know, as a kid, I thought it was a blast to stack rocks, and I want to encourage my child to have open play, right?

But then I also want to teach her that, hey, by moving these rocks around your you're messing with little ecosystems of salamanders and water straters and things of that nature.

53:09

Maturing is realizing that you don't have to stack the rocks.

Yeah, that's a hard one.

It is.

It is fun.

It hurts.

That should be a T-shirt it.

Hurts, It hurts, But you don't have to stack the rocks, right?

Yeah.

How else can we get involved?

The newts well, thank you.

The.

Newts Well thank you.

53:26

Some other ways to get involved and we're thinking again from a tourism and sustainability perspective, build awareness through conversations.

So I appreciate you all hosting this podcast because that's one way to to get the message out right because we want to keep bringing people to Tennessee.

53:41

We just want to educate them in the process and listening to good, good podcast, researching an area before you go and and maybe having something like this conversation pop up, someone might take something away from it.

Easy with G Word or just a podcast, she said.

53:56

Good podcast.

Oh, that's.

True.

Yeah, that may not apply.

The G word.

Another way to get involved is to advocate attend City Council meetings, which I harp on a little bit because it's such a great way to use your voice instead of using your voice to complain on a social media post.

54:16

Take that voice and make it productive well.

Sofa media post.

Well, so, so.

One thing that always like gripes or grinds my gears I guess is, is when someone will will be so quick to complain and then you like have a try to have a conversation and and understand the why.

54:32

They can never articulate like why they feel that way.

And so it's like you know your your your complaint doesn't have any bearing and it dangster doesn't have a fix.

If you can't articulate, you know like why you feel this.

More times than not, it leads to a dead end.

54:48

It does.

And it's like.

Leads to arguments.

And the the biggest thing is like, yeah, if you would just, you know, if you do have a complaint, guess what, people can do something about that.

But you got to be at the City Council meetings.

You've got to be in front and conversing with the people who can do something about it.

55:05

I'm sure they're happy to hear you out.

Right.

And in those instances, I'll try to share statistics.

You know as tourism provides X amount of jobs for our community, your child or grandchild might be an employee out of tourism industry, you know, So that's providing sustainable future.

55:20

I respect it.

Another way to get involved building community, and I think your podcast again here is a great way to do that.

Building that community, sharing the message, getting out, and maybe joining groups like SORBA comes to mind.

A local mountain biking group.

55:36

Building trails, being part of the message.

You know, if you're advocating for something, actually getting out there and getting your hands dirty, yeah, volunteering.

It's a great way to.

Trail's a really cool thing.

Yeah.

You think about an old railroad.

Yep, but it's just.

Doing nothing right.

It's, it's.

I guess they just kind of followed the suit.

55:52

Rails to trails are such a cool way to upcycle that.

Is it's like, OK, you take something that was vital for a period of time for whatever reason, routes change, whatever, and it's no longer as a train track beneficial.

56:08

It's now green space, yeah.

There you go.

And that's a little.

Easy ride, easy walking.

Oh yeah, it's.

Just running it's, it's, so that's a.

Great, whatever you want to do on.

All the latest, you know.

I love those.

Very friendly.

So another way I have to get involved kind of goes back to that medium question you asked earlier.

56:26

Campaigns are very effective and that comes from more of a, I guess on a back end perspective, if you're promoting tourism or if you're a local business or in the hospitality industry creating campaigns around your message.

So recently we did a a roughly A50 day winter campaign and those numbers that came back, I'll just share over 1.3 million impressions, nearly 30,000 link clicks directly to our website.

56:52

So these numbers again the proof is kind of in in the pudding.

I don't know how I feel about that expression, but but it's weird.

It is a weird one.

Yeah, it's never put.

Them in on it.

Oh.

We're on the same page on that.

In the summertime, you can throw some strawberries in there too.

Hey, I.

Do like a good straw I.

Like to mix the chocolate instead of the vanilla pudding and then.

57:09

Interesting.

Interesting.

As long as it's got Nilla Wafers, I'm in.

Yeah, the wafers are good.

So that's another way is, is to create a campaign around your message and I'll share if it's OK really quick, some of our top markets from that campaign.

Yeah, so you have the data that comes in and you can directly see how your message is being received and what audiences.

57:27

So our top markets from our recent campaign that ran November 2023 to January 24, Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charlotte, Orlando, we're also seeing an international market rise right now, which I find so interesting.

We have China, Germany, India, UK.

57:44

We've had Ireland pop up and these are directly visitors coming to our website.

Ireland.

So, so you're when you say those States and cities, like that's where the impression was from, right?

That's where the person was the visitor to your website from Ireland and all these other places.

58:03

Right.

And sometimes we're targeting certain markets, but with our like Google campaign, for instance, we are selecting areas and these are kind of those areas that most people engaged or very cool.

We're shown an ad, very cool.

That's amazing.

Yeah, and one more thing I'll throw up.

58:18

We had a new market from Washington.

DCI thought that was super cool.

Little fun fact.

Wow.

OK.

So folks are are in the know about the Northeast Tennessee, Yeah.

Red.

That's awesome.

And yeah, again, just building that campaign message.

So in the future, you know, now that we have this data, I might try to build a campaign around promoting conservation to these visitors now that they've seen it once on one touch point.

58:42

Here's your second viewing of an ad.

And now it's education about conservation.

There you go.

Yeah.

One more thing I'll touch on is barriers to access.

So I just wanted to to reiterate that it doesn't always have to be a State Park or wilderness area that we're advocating for people to protect and to visit.

58:58

It can also be our local city parks.

It can be our local green spaces.

You know all of our Tri-City, Greenville, Johnson City, we all have local green spaces.

And when you're involved at a City Council meeting or you're advocating, you can be part of the community that helps this infrastructure continue to be protected and to grow.

59:18

So it doesn't always have to be miles away.

It can be right here in your own community.

So if it's all overwhelming, just start local, right?

So.

Very nice, very nice.

Tennessee has 57 designated state parks.

Yeah.

We need to keep those.

59:34

Yeah, yeah.

And and so like one in particular that I have personally witnessed and and thankfully I believe they're they're starting to get some funding to to redo is is Horse Creek.

Yeah, you know it it took it.

It used to be.

Stomping grounds, yeah.

59:50

I mean well and so that played a huge role in my in my mother's and her siblings upbringing because they were so close to it.

My.

My mom's too.

It used to.

Be you know it used to be.

You know, it was maybe neglected is not the right word.

But no, it was neglected.

1:00:06

Well, from a resource perspective, right, It just didn't get the attention, the maintenance, the.

Maybe a lack of funding, Yeah.

That's definitely what it ended up being so because it.

Wasn't like a main part.

It wasn't.

And and so now I've heard that they are getting some funding and they're going to redo the Pavilions and and bring and restore those and yeah, that's.

1:00:23

Revamping the campsite.

That's really awesome.

Yeah.

And I I do think tourism helps with that funding.

And and again, I think people are starting to be more aware that outdoor recreation is one of our main assets and that it, it's a trillion dollar industry.

1:00:39

I mean you know mountain biking and all this, it brings in a lot of revenue.

So there's still potential for revenue there and it's just advocating to dedicate a portion of that to the up the upkeep and the maintenance and the preservation of these parks.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

That's awesome.

Hopefully everybody enjoyed that, because I now feel way more educated, I feel.

1:00:59

Learned.

Absolutely.

I got learned.

Got learned today.

Hey, so you've said it many of times.

We keep using the word folk, right?

Love that.

Y'all.

I've heard you dropped several.

Y'alls someone.

Told me ain't in the dictionary.

False.

1:01:15

I think it is now.

I truly think it is.

I believe it is it.

Is totally in the but it.

Is in the.

I think it's been there.

For like 15 years, Yeah.

Where have you been?

What?

Rock.

Have you been?

Living under Come on now.

But y'all, so I heard.

So we we had an event and they're out of Ohio.

The the originators, right?

They typed in an e-mail, y'all and they said, I can't believe I just used y'all.

1:01:34

I said, listen yo, it is so efficient.

Our version of the English language is efficient it.

Is so efficient, I agree with that.

One of my faves, Narian I.

Know you type it all the time.

Narian, Naria, Narian.

1:01:50

There's a couple different use it, in a sense, dialects.

Well, right now I ain't got Narian a Mountain Dew left.

I've not heard that one and I don't know how, 'cause I feel like my Mamaw would have been all over that.

Y'all are you?

Ain't got Naria one sense.

It it means basically none I'm going to.

1:02:08

Throw like some phrases in there too, like if your nose is itching, you know that means someone's coming.

Yeah, I haven't heard that the cows are laying down, ears burning, right?

I've heard that one.

My favorite, my favorite, my the epitome of efficiency is Jeet.

1:02:23

Yet.

Oh yeah, what?

Jeet yet?

Yet.

Yet.

We got two syllables yet.

Yet.

Did you eat yet?

That's four freaking words.

So efficient.

Condensed in two syllables, I mean, yeah, show me somewhere.

Else is the best right?

Y'all.

Is the best.

I recently I made some friends in Scotland visiting this summer and I was typing them a message and I wrote out you all because I had put y'all and I thought they won't know what that means.

1:02:48

So I typed it out and then I'm like it don't sound right.

No, they.

Won't know what it means, but it's a great educational off.

There you.

Go.

We're trying to educate people, culture them, so to speak.

That's.

Right.

We can sense when rains are coming based on our gout like it's that's Appalachian folk have quite a quite a few talents.

1:03:03

Cows laying down, you know.

Cows laying down.

That's that's the weather prediction.

That's.

What I'm saying We're smarter than just your average bumpkin.

We're in tune with the land that's.

What it's about That's it.

Know our.

Surroundings.

And we know not to approach bears, Jared.

Yeah.