Episode 18 - "Is Email Marketing Dead?" feat. Beau Bawab | Blogs & Organic Lead Generation

0:01

No, we're so rolling We.

It's you rolling.

I might be, I might be, might be rolling.

Am I dating myself there?

Am I know that?

Song.

That's Wayne.

No, that's who sings is you rolling.

0:19

I don't know.

I'm blanking right now.

It's.

Certainly 2000s era, though.

Like you're You're in that space, yeah.

I'm blanking.

I never had that one illegally downloaded on the Limewire, so I don't I can't tell you who the artist was or wasn't.

Man, the Limewire days were wild.

0:35

Yeah.

Limewire dude, if you didn't crash at least two PCSI.

Was going to say.

I don't think you were doing it right.

The the viral infections that were had and during the Limewire days I.

0:51

But it was always so enticing to click that, right?

I mean, they titled it just perfectly.

It's no truly, it's it's.

I think it's a precursor to YouTube.

I'm going to draw a massive parallel here that maybe no one else on Earth has ever drawn.

I'm I'm waiting because you're the title.

1:08

And the description of those virus infected?

They were enticing.

You clicked on it, True.

Why did you click on it?

Because the STD's software transmitted diseases I.

Don't think you clicked on it for that reason.

You clicked on it because whatever it was claiming to offer, you wanted.

1:25

Whatever it was.

Claiming to offer then a YouTube thumbnail.

Very.

True.

A good title.

So like Limewire?

What it What it actually delivered was something that Ajax couldn't wash off, and that's a software transmitted disease, A.

Software that's that's interesting.

1:42

Software transmitted disease.

I don't know that I've ever heard that.

Or an MTDA malware cause wouldn't technically isn't a virus?

Isn't that malware?

I mean, that's a form of it.

Yeah.

IT guy That's a that's a That's certainly a form of it.

Ouch.

Either way, stay safe out there, kids.

Watch out for your media downloaders.

1:59

You remember Napster?

Napster was another one.

Too, I never was a Napster.

I once Limewire kind of got the clamps put on it.

I hopped over briefly to Frostwire.

OK.

I'll remember Frostwire a little bit it.

Was not as good as Limewire and then ultimately I guess I'm just self incriminating here.

2:19

I went with the free also YouTube to MP3 converters.

Oh yeah, one of the one of the staples.

One of the staples.

But this, all, all of this was taught to us by an older generation.

Very true, you.

2:35

Used to have to record your ringtones.

Oh yeah, because ringtones used to be a thing.

And they were $1.99.

They were $1.99.

So who's paying for that?

Your parents in 2000?

Well, I can tell you, Jeff and Nina Collins were not therefore.

I was going to say mine.

Mine put the damper on that pretty quick.

2:50

So did not have paid ringtones.

So I didn't have a cell phone until high school.

Yeah.

So the we are an interesting or an interesting generation.

Oh yeah, we have.

We're we're the last generation that remembers what it was like to live.

Prior.

3:07

To Internet.

Well, yeah.

Now my almost 5 year old daughter at the time of this recording is asking me when she's going to get her first cell phone as she's doing her makeup and I'm like what in the heck, what if?

Five years old.

Huh.

Almost 5.

Almost 5 making it up and asking for a phone.

3:23

Oh yeah, it does full makeup right now.

Does a She could probably do makeup tutorials and and build a fairly stout YouTube channel.

I'm not opposed to it.

She's got school to pay for eventually.

One day maybe, I don't know.

Could be a market.

Change.

That's a yeah.

Hey, there's something there.

3:38

We'll see.

We'll see.

Listen, it wouldn't be a faith in Frames episode.

Hit me if we didn't have a dad joke.

Hit me and it snowed.

It's a little bit here, finally.

Not enough.

I've got a very disappointed 3 year old at the house.

Same because my end of the Greene County we did not get enough snow.

3:55

West End did.

And the North End?

Oh yeah.

My daughter only wants to build a no man.

Well, she ain't building no man right now.

That's for sure, yeah.

There's no men getting built.

That is is the only way that's happening.

She's very frustrated and I am too, because I I truthfully still like.

4:13

Snow, I understand.

I've not reached the complete age of fuddy dudness to where I hate snow.

I still enjoy getting out and playing brings me back to my kid days, but this one's got to do with snow.

Hit me How do you follow Will Smith in the snow?

4:37

I don't know that that's a good one.

That's a good one.

Hit me.

Well, you can start by following The Fresh Prince.

Ah.

Very nice.

Obvious, right?

Oh, I hear it.

You're like, yeah, that I should have known that.

4:52

I should have known that I I wish and and if if if an audience listener knows where it can be because to my knowledge it's never made it to streaming.

I would love to binge watch the Far out of Some Fresh Prince, but I've never found it on anything.

5:08

They did a revamp of it.

I can't remember if it was as good or not.

I don't want the revamp, I want I.

Think it has a little darker tone to.

It I want, Uncle Phil, I want because because here's the thing I keep getting fed little shorts and stuff like people have have have migrated that over to the short form content and I'm like, God, this was a good show.

5:26

It was it was good.

For I love old Uncle Phil, man.

I just watched the one where he hustled the dude at the pool hall.

He acted as though like most sharks do, right?

He acted as though he couldn't play and like was literally like holding the pool cue incorrectly.

5:42

And.

Got, got slaughtered the first match and.

You need to watch Dane the Great on TikTok.

He he does Southern pool sharks and one of his kids.

It's hilarious.

Also, in the words of the famous philosopher J.

Cole, First things first.

Rest in peace, Uncle Phil.

6:00

For real.

Yeah, I mean.

You're the only father that I ever knew.

Anyway, it was a good show and I wish.

I wish I could binge it somewhere, but I don't.

I don't think that's available anyway right now.

I.

Don't know?

We can do some research and we'll we'll report our findings to our massive podcast following.

6:16

I'm actually relying on them to to tell me where.

Where's that they can that can give us the info?

Trying to use our reach here.

Yeah, I'm fine with that.

I'm fine with that.

Got a guest?

We do have a guest.

We're in a new space.

Today we are in a new space.

Kind of cool.

Kind of cool.

It's actually really.

Cool.

Kind of different.

It's very creative.

6:32

Oh, I feel plum inspired.

I feel inspired.

I feel like I'm based at home here in Appalachia.

So it's not Appalachia?

No, no, it's certainly not.

Is that?

A fighting word?

Is that a fighting group of syllables there?

That's pretty tough.

6:47

That's pretty tough it.

Definitely is, but definitely it is not.

Get out of here with your Appalachia I.

Don't like it?

Garbage.

I don't like it.

It's 'cause it's not, well, let's bring our guest on, But first let's think our sponsor.

Yeah, today's sponsor, sponsor of this episode of Faith and frames none other than Create Appalachia who have generously donated the space for the podcast.

7:10

Today.

Folks, if you are a creative looking for a space to come and maybe do some brainstorming, maybe get a little bit of work done.

If you're an animator, if you're an artist, if you're a heck, there's mortgage officers in here, whatever your path in life is.

It is a Co working space.

7:26

It is a Co working space built for creators by creators here at Create Appalachia.

Katie, Cher and the crew here at Create Appalachia.

Thank you for sponsoring this episode of Faith and Frames, folks here at Create Appalachia.

It's where art meets business.

Yeah, it is.

I kind of like that.

7:42

That's a good mantra.

Yeah, it is that's.

Strong, That's stout.

That's stout.

Stout.

So they've got all kinds of coworking spaces, They've got the training room right, with computers, just like.

No less than like 4012 computers if.

You've got to do some on riming room if you want to start a podcast, podcast studio.

8:01

Oh, it's it's, it's set up.

Big studio in the back for some productions in there as well.

They've got some incubation offices as they've labeled them, which I think is cool.

You incubate your business and that's kind of their goal here is they want you to bring your startup, bring your current business in and really incubate you to the point to where you are a self-sustaining business entity.

8:21

I love it.

I love it their.

Whole thing is you don't have to be a starving artist.

Bingo today and you should go.

I feel fed.

I'm.

I'm plum inspired as I stated earlier.

I'm kind of fool right now.

I might need to loosen the belt.

Well.

Jared, meeting taters.

Get us meeting taters.

We have a new.

8:36

Guest Today we have a new guest.

Today he's in our space, but he doesn't do video or photo.

But he's still in content.

He's still in marketing, helping people navigate these waters of the net, the the Internet, media, media.

8:54

Bow.

I'm going to let you say your last name because I I know I'll butcher it.

Oh, boba wab.

Boba Wab.

Yeah.

I love that.

That's got a good rattle to it.

Thanks also for our listeners out there.

You actually spell your name a little differently, too.

It's BEAU, correct?

9:11

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

The the first time that Jared mentioned you to me, I'm going to go ahead.

If no one's ever told you this, I'm sure they have.

I'm going to give you a great opportunity.

You could harbor in a little bit of Cajun, put AX at the end of that.

You'd be Boo.

9:27

Yeah.

People told me to do that there.

You go put a little Cajun in there, no different than Joe Burrow did on his LSU jersey.

I think you'll be fitting if you if you're feeling a little Cajun one day, just stick an X there.

Yeah, it really confused the people at Starbucks.

When I being like, it's my gosh and they're like, how do you spell that?

9:44

I'm like BAUX.

Because I'm Cajun, Do you?

Actually, do you ever get a cup spelled appropriately or is it just Bo?

Because around here like that's bow.

Yeah, well, it's it's always wrong.

And I started just saying it's Bo, but people will be like, obviously this dude's name is BOW and I'm like.

10:06

What, like Katniss Everdeen?

Yeah.

And I'm like, have you, have you ever met someone like that?

Like, not, not even being rude.

Just like, yeah.

Yeah.

I've never met a bow.

A Bo person.

Yeah, BOW I.

Shoot bows.

But yeah, it's definitely not a name.

10:23

I've I've had a I've had really weird experiences with my name where people would be like, oh is it view?

And I'm like, I get how you would see that.

That makes sense.

To me, But I I was at Starbucks one day, had like a tall order for people.

And the workers kept saying, like, oh, order for Beau.

10:40

I'm like, OK, I know that's.

Then another one would say, Oh yeah, order for Beau.

And I'm like, say the third time you let you and.

Then like third time like, do you like?

Do you think that's like a name like have you?

Sound right to?

You have you ever met someone with that name?

10:57

There is an English brand of motorcycles.

There used to be a motorcycle manufacturer and they have a similar a similar name.

So I mean, I guess, I guess, but no, not not here in Tennessee.

I give not get a lot of that job.

Yeah, I give people the benefit that I'm like, it's fine.

11:14

It's a.

It's a weird name.

Until that third time.

Then it's not fine.

So you son of a gun.

Just.

Saying right, yeah.

Third time I was like, come on, like you.

You could have tried.

Make an effort.

Make an effort.

Just ask me.

Just ask me.

Listen, I've just embraced the Jerry.

I'm Jerry.

I'm Jerry at any place that asks for my name for the order.

11:31

I could be able to.

Call you that?

Oh, that's all that I ever get.

I have never, almost never gotten Jared at any establishment where they ask you for your name and your order at the at the time of order, ever.

Coffee cups, everything.

I'm always Jerry, so I might as well just be Jerry.

11:48

And when we're together, nobody can get our names right anyways, because they're so similar.

So we just go by Jerry and Gary.

I'm fine with it.

Yeah, it didn't bother me.

I've been called a whole lot worse in my life.

Bingo.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

For sure.

So Bo, you do very specific things.

12:07

You do lead magnets, you do blog posts and you do e-mail marketing.

Everything that can be written I do.

Yeah, you're like the Liam Neeson of media.

You're you're a man with a very specific set of skills.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

12:24

Those are the big three that I do.

This is what I like to perform anyway.

So, so I I, I I've discovered you on LinkedIn.

Yeah.

And truthfully, it was all because of ETSU, right?

That's how I found you, because you were under the suggested piece under people that you May know at ETSU.

12:43

Like, I don't know, Beau, but I'd like to know both.

So let's connect and enjoyed reading your content.

Eventually reached out, learned a little more about what you do.

We've sat and we've talked off camera several Times Now.

Yes.

Why?

And how did you end up in the content creation that you're in?

13:06

Yeah, I almost.

It's not a fell into it, but I just realized kind of the need.

I started like blogging, OK and like freelancing in college, right?

13:21

But it wasn't like marketing stuff that I was blogging.

I started like a video game review blog.

Oh, nice.

OK, And I was like, oh, this is cool.

And so I like, I started reading my blogging and I was like, this is an amazing thing.

Yeah, And kind of like kept going and then stopped doing that, focused on school, kind of kept freelancing, like doing little like marketing tasks like in the freelancing space.

13:49

But I kind of realised I was like, I mean A blog is a very freeway to get traffic to your business, right?

Yes, to your website specifically, right.

Like there's it's kind of hard to make a website rank without a blog.

14:05

That's true.

So I was like, oh, that's cool.

I like doing it.

It's fun to like.

I like writing.

I like saying I'm a writer, even though I don't really open with that.

Did so Did you Did you find yourself always enjoying, like, language classes in school?

14:23

Did you enjoy language arts?

Did you enjoy English classes?

Yeah, I was, yeah.

Like growing up I was always like doing some form of like writing.

So English class was great for me.

And then like, I started in like fifth grade.

14:38

I did like a, like a comic book club where we would like write like comics and like, you know, they're terrible as a fifth grader.

Then 6th grade I was like, oh, I'm going to write like I was really into like Knights of the Round Table.

And so I was like, I want to write like a a story about like, nights going on adventures.

15:00

Did you write Monty Python?

No.

We are the Knights at the Round Table, yeah.

I love that movie though.

But yeah, so kind of just.

I was like 6th grade and then I think I kind of stopped like pursuing like writing stuff just because I think I got like into other things as a kid.

15:20

But for sure.

But it's always been in there like you've you've had that rider deep down.

Yeah, yeah.

Which is interesting.

Not.

Not a lot of people claim to be a I consider myself a decent bull crapper when it comes to writing, but like to actually claim to be a writer?

No, that's not me.

15:36

Yeah.

And I mean, I still, again, I I wouldn't call myself a writer just because that seems so, like real.

But like, yeah, I think everyone has like a some form of creativity.

Yeah.

Like some people are great at like, you know, painting.

Some people are great, you know, film makers and like photographers.

15:54

You know, like.

I can I can point you in the direction of a few.

Yeah.

And then like, I think other people like probably get it writing if you're or music, you know, I think everyone has some creative outlet that they're good at and that's.

That's that's that's crazy because I was, I was just talking to a kid at church the other day and I was telling him I was like, you know, it is really strange that the two things that I get the most enjoyment out of today were probably my two least favorite subjects growing up in school.

16:23

I love history, hated history.

In school.

I actually enjoy creative writing more.

So on like more so on like the dad level.

Like the I've got a personal blog that I that I do, and it's like I really enjoy writing stories about the struggles of being a dad, because I know dads will resonate with it by.

16:41

The way folks go?

Subscribe to Jared's.

Blog I'm not.

I'm not plugging it, but.

Seriously, what's good?

What?

I'm.

Saying is is like the two subjects that I probably had the least interest in highest disdain with actually in school where where history and and language arts and now that's.

16:57

Kind of what you do.

Now that's what I I I I get enjoyment out of that.

Like I was good in I was good at math, I was good at science.

So like naturally those were my my good subjects in school.

And now it's like I don't really care if I ever have to do another mathematic thing or or things sure don't want to be balanced in a chemical equation which.

17:17

I think we all understand Like what things that you're good at and things that you enjoy doing are not always mutually exclusive.

There's a lot of people who are good at like their job or a good at a certain thing, but they don't thoroughly enjoy doing it, I think.

I think creativity for a lot of people is a it's an outlet.

17:34

I'm sure riding for you as an outlet.

I know riding for you as an outlet.

Unfortunately for me, my creative outlet is also what we do for a living.

So I'm basically trying to touch a camera at all points in time and that's one of my outlets.

But no, I don't think that enjoyment and and her doing what you do for a living and and creativity don't always have to be mutually exclusive.

17:54

Right.

So I want We talked about this a couple times off camera blogs.

Yes.

It's 2024.

I don't know when the first blog was written.

You may know that historical fact toyed Blogs to me on the outside looking in like have had a bit of an opposite bell curve.

18:13

Like at one point they were huge, everybody was writing blogs, and then it's like everybody kind of forgot about them when YouTube and stuff came around.

And so they took, they took this dip in importance and and and whatnot.

Now I'm seeing a massive, massive rise of the need and the usefulness of a blog today.

18:31

Well, in full transparency until until we were introduced to you, I thoroughly thought blogs were dead.

And and two, we were we were fresh off of our our revamp and and off of our rebrand.

So we were still trying to figure out what things we needed to incorporate.

He mentioned blogs and e-mail marketing to me.

18:49

And I was like, yeah, right, Dude, are people even still opening emails?

And reading like 5, that's a really.

Old form of communication.

Well, yeah, I mean and again, I come from another industry where we didn't deal with emails, we didn't do blogs.

So like it was not common to me.

So whenever he mentioned mentioned it to me, I was like OK, I'll go listen to this, this guy, but I'm not sure like we can actually utilize it.

19:10

So you've you've in a very short stint actually changed even my outlook on that.

So I want you to plead the case even to our listeners, because now we understand, like it's very prominent, very much a need.

19:25

You mentioned it briefly earlier.

You said it's almost hard to rank, almost impossible to write these days without blogs.

Why speak speak Speak to the ranking and and the usefulness of all the SEO and the back and the back story as to why blogs are actually effective.

19:44

Yes, I mean, you're just getting free keywords that trick.

I mean keywords how you rank on Google.

You know everyone wants to rank first on Google.

You might not be able to do that with just a home page and a Contact Us because there's not enough content on those pages unless you're a very niche business.

20:03

OK.

Fair enough.

There.

That's an anomaly, though.

Yeah, like if you have a competition of like three people, you're already in the top three.

Miniature horse farmer.

You're already in the top.

Three.

Yeah, like that's that's like, but that's an anomaly.

20:19

But like most businesses aren't super niche.

They have a niche, but they're not like.

Oh, there's competitors.

Yeah, you're still in.

How do you?

Differentiate yourself.

How do you rank higher, right?

Yeah.

And also, I mean, one of the reasons I recommend people to do blogs is your competitors like probably aren't doing it.

20:38

They probably think like Garrett thought very recently ago.

What's a blog?

Yeah, what's a blog?

Yeah.

And it's just a free, I mean, just being able to get that like free ranking, you know, but also it gives you a chance to like show off your expertise and like resonate positioning, yeah.

20:57

Absolutely I can.

I can see that wholeheartedly.

Right.

Because and I think, I mean all of us have something in our industry that's like almost like frustrating to explain on like a sales call.

You know, you're like, I am like so tired of people asking me about like, blank, Like I don't want to have to sell it, but like if they found you on a blog and then you were able to just show that expertise you.

21:20

Already educated.

To that, yeah.

They they're like, oh, OK, yeah.

Well, you've saved yourself a lot of words there.

I mean, you had to put in the initial work to to answer that.

But it you answer at one time versus how many times people are going to ask you and if it's an FAQ already, like you say, go ahead and handle it with a blog.

21:38

That was one of the most interesting things for me.

Whenever you told that concept to us at our at our first meeting, I was like, OK, now it's starting to make sense again.

I'm stupid when it comes to blogs and copy at that at that point in time.

So you you were able to start kind of peeling back the layers of the importance of it?

21:54

Yeah, Well, and also, I mean, I know you guys have mentioned like it seems like a almost like a dead medium, yeah.

So we thought.

And you know, it's maybe like least popular on like the big three of like content production, which would be like video podcast blogs, right?

22:13

But it's still there.

I was.

Gonna say it's still one of the big three.

Yeah.

And it's so passive.

Yeah.

You.

Yeah, you write it once, you don't have to do anything, right.

Yeah.

I mean, you can maybe go back and like optimize your content like once a year or so.

Disclaimer once you've been indexed.

Yeah, yeah, once you.

Once Google has has crawled and indexed your page and knows those keywords are present on this web page, it can then present it to people.

22:35

Who?

If you're listening, we're still waiting for our index, I believe.

It's, it's coming and that's, yeah.

That that's just, you know, like.

That's just.

Google.

But what I'm saying is like, it's it's so passive in the sense that a blog you wrote a year ago, two years ago for a company, yeah, it can still be getting traffic, still educating people, They can now have more educated clients and buyers as a result of this.

22:56

Yeah, well I have a like a good friend and like he we work together now.

But he had a blog like for his business and he was like writing, but then he got out of it because he got busy.

But he's like, I want to start it back up.

And he's like, he's like I do have a blog like is like #1 like every October.

23:16

It's a It's like puns for like a trivia team name.

Oh, OK.

And.

So I was like, dude, you're only a massive spike like in October.

He's like this is not like and he wrote it four years, no, five years ago now.

23:31

Still Reaping benefits from it.

Yeah, this is trivia with buds.

Correct.

Yeah.

Trivia with buds.

Yeah, yeah.

So he he wrote that and it is it's a very like simple like article too it it's literally just a list of 10 or 20 names.

Yeah that's that's it.

And Evergreen.

23:47

Yeah, it's.

Evergreen.

It's Evergreen, it's easy to read and like, obviously has an audience for it and they come.

Back to it and I was time and time again.

I was like, blown.

I was like, this is like kind of what I tell people like is like the benefit to a blog.

Oh yeah, absolutely.

24:03

And it's not always that you have to, like, hire a professional writer to do it.

Yeah, you can do it yourself.

Yeah.

Which is what I recommend most people do.

Yeah, right.

And then when you get too busy, Yeah, OK, You can look into hiring.

But what?

What ideal?

24:19

What ideal frequency do you kind of look to to be at with people?

What do you recommend?

So I.

Had a once a month thing is that.

So I once.

Every week, yeah.

What are you looking at there?

Ideally I recommend once a week, but like realistically I tell most business owners like once a month.

24:39

It's going to be slow, but it's probably the most manageable because like it takes time to write a blog.

It takes time to like, upload the blog and optimize it.

But like once a month, I think everyone could do.

Once a week is ideal.

24:54

Honestly, if you could do every day, Oh yeah, definitely.

Most people cannot do.

That's not sustainable.

Right.

Yeah, that's tough.

It's like shooting a YouTube video every day.

Yeah, I would tell people like, I wouldn't do every day.

Yeah, like if maybe like twice a week would be like my Max for any business owner out there.

25:14

But yeah, I would say once a week, ideally once a month, like probably realistically.

So a concern that I think a lot of people are going to run into if if if they were feasibly able to do twice a week, if they were able to, let's let's say for the sake of this discussion, people can do twice a week.

25:30

That's eight in a month, right?

And you multiply that by 12.

That's what, 64?

Eight in the north times 12.

That's 96.

Don't.

I told you I didn't want to do math again.

Right.

So anyway, 96, That's 96 in a year.

People probably feel as though they don't have 96 pieces of of of content to write about.

25:50

So at what do you do?

You rephrase, do you repurpose?

Is it always got to be 96 unique things?

Like, what would you say to someone who's like, dude, I can't, I don't have that many topics to talk about well.

Give me a list, because obviously, number one, you said FAQs.

26:05

Yeah, FAQs.

Aside from FAQs, what would you compartmentalize then?

FA, QS, tips, case studies, industry insight, like just maybe just purely educational stuff, defining terms like this versus that.

26:25

That's off the top of my head, but that's like 7.

So if I so if I wrote a blog six months ago, is it, could I revisit that in a new blog?

Yeah, because I mean let's if you do like a camera review like so let's say you're doing like a camera review and you're just talking about that camera, then you can give a, this camera versus this camera and I mean you could write that like for every camera.

26:51

I mean, I've utilized that.

There's been times on my channel where I've done an initial, I'll call it my initial review of Camera A, and then I'll come back and and this is pretty recyclable amongst a lot of camera people on YouTube.

But we'll come back six months later or even a year later, and I'll say my first six months with the XYZ camera, or I'll say this XYZ camera after one full year.

27:12

Well, that's a good point.

You've got a new perspective.

Right, I've got a new you've got.

More, you've got more set points and data points to.

Data points are new that the honeymoon phases over because everyone, when they get a new toy, is so excited about it.

You may realize there's things about it that you hate.

You may realize there's some work around.

So yeah, the information after time can certainly be changed.

27:30

That's a good point.

Yeah, I like that.

Yeah, I mean, it can even be like, you just write a whole article on one feature of the camera.

Yep, it's true.

Like and you know.

Golly, then you've got like an infinite number of blogs that you can write.

Well, so here's the thing.

I'm glad you're using us as a study because like, we're going to have this as historical context and ideas like we're just using, we're just using Bo over here as ChatGPT.

27:53

Thanks.

Bo.

Yeah, it's all up here.

Yeah.

Bo.

GPT.

So that's blogs.

They're obviously not dead.

Companies should be using that.

Yeah, speak.

To lead magnets.

Yes.

First off, what is a lead magnet for folks that don't know?

Good point.

Yeah, good question.

I I use I think the term lead magnet like sounds.

28:10

It's a bit of a buzzword.

It it is a bit of a buzzword, but it's like.

Same with like SEO.

Everybody wants to throw that around.

Yeah, but like a lead magnet's really.

Just like how what can you give to someone to capture a lead Now?

A blog could be a lead magnet.

Sometimes it's not, but it's.

28:26

Probably not the most effective.

It's it's not it's not as like in your face, it's it's it's a lot more passive of a lead magnet I would think.

Yeah, but like, it's a it's like a guide.

OK, maybe ebook.

Like a checklist, A worksheet, a course, Maybe just like bonus video newsletter, like those kind of quiz.

28:49

OK, quizzes.

Yeah, I think quizzes are big.

Those are lead magnets, so.

How are you distributing those?

I normally recommend people do guides and then depending on the industry, I will say like a quiz is probably good for you.

But so the way you'd like to get it out there would be, you know, put it on your blog.

29:07

And that's like the bonus content because the blog attracts them to your site.

The lead magnet then captures their info right?

So you're not even, you're not even at this point dabbling with or or or advising like aggressive with like an ad or or anything like that.

29:25

These are all.

You've got them to your site through your blog.

Yeah.

So you're saying the magnet is not the spearhead at that point in time?

Because I've always thought that the magnet was the spearhead.

Yeah.

So I think with if it's an ad then yeah, like you're just promoting that.

But normally the like in that customer journey, the traction phase, it's going to be your like blog or social media or whatever you're using, but like the lead magnet then makes them give you their details.

29:53

Right, I got you.

Well, yeah, you've got to have the information because at the end of the day, a lead is is is a name and a person and somebody that you have the potential to build a relationship with.

So you have to have the info at some point in time.

Well, so like in our industry, there's a there's a famous photographer Frodo's photo Jared Poland great YouTube channel.

30:11

I've followed him for years.

He's he's still using, to my knowledge, the same lead magnet on every one of his YouTube videos he would say sign up for.

Pro Pack one.

Oh, no, that's that's that's his, that's his presets.

30:27

Oh yeah.

Yeah.

His his initial lead magnet was his free guide to getting out of.

Free guide to shooting in low light.

Yes.

So you signed up.

You got he gave, you gave him your e-mail, which is what he ultimately wanted.

You then got something that a lot of photographers are really on struggle with is shooting photos in low light.

30:46

And keeping them sharp and.

Keeping them sharp and in focus.

So like, you got a free guide at that point to learn how to do this skill better.

So like he's used that.

I think he's probably still using that honestly.

But his goal, so this is, this is how this relates to any other business.

31:03

His goal was to ultimately get your e-mail address.

Right.

Because that brings us to our The third thing that I want to talk about with you is e-mail marketing.

Yeah.

Well, so.

Just what is that and why is that so powerful?

31:19

Yeah, well, so one of the also benefits before we just jump into e-mail marketing is the lead magnet also might make you feel like you kind of owe them something, right, If they utilize it right.

Because, I mean, if you did take that, like photography, like, course, yeah, you know, six months later you might be like, let's dude helped me.

31:38

Like what?

What else?

Also, the psychological.

I see what you're saying there.

Yeah, there's a lot to it.

But yeah, this is.

Well, but it makes sense because even going back to Poland, so he offers the get out of or or how to shoot in low light.

But then his offer at that point in time is the fro pack.

31:54

It's it's the it's the presets for your photos.

Well, but you've also, so this is something.

That's a nice little trail that he puts people on.

Yeah, but you've built.

You've already built.

Trust with that person, right?

Yeah, because you give them the.

Free the free value.

Solve somebody's problem.

Oh, guess what?

I also solved these other.

Problems.

You get them free value and then they come back for your actual product.

32:12

OK, I see what you're saying.

So this all like intertwines and I'm I'm making this connection right here, live.

On this podcast and not even realized it.

Well, like my my lead magnet, That's like my Evergreen one.

I have 3, but I have one that like, has really been hitting home.

32:27

It's it's how to build your own content marketing strategy.

OK.

And so that's like, Oh, well, these people downloading it are obviously interested in building their own content marketing strategy, right?

And like, they could totally implement it from the guide.

32:44

It might be a little difficult like just.

To Well, there's work involved.

Yeah, right.

And so I'm like, well, this is a good person to obviously talk to and be like, hey, like you can implement it yourself or I can do it and execute it, right?

Like you don't got to worry about it.

You got the knowledge and that's ultimately the goal, right?

33:00

It's like, OK, Jared, you know Jared and Jared's case.

He's like, look after you read this and and and understand this.

You can shoot photos in low light, but or you could just hire me to photograph your next event, right?

Right.

Maybe you want to learn how to.

33:17

Maybe you want to put that time and work into it.

Most people don't, I think.

You probably experienced that too because we experienced that a lot is we will give people the advice on how to they go try it and then eventually they'll come back and say I just don't have the time or I don't even have the willingness to put in the time, which is OK.

33:36

That's why we exist, and that's why you exist in the marketing and the e-mail marketing and the blogs and everything.

Yeah, because also, it's like you have to now learn how to set up like an e-mail.

Yes, marketing account.

Not just like a Gmail account, right.

You got to link your domain to it, right?

33:53

Do the D chem this like SPF?

Yep, all that like boring stuff.

Oh yes.

And you?

Just hit me with a lot of stuff that I've never.

All the tech jargon.

That's all.

E-mail.

Yeah, that's all.

Emailed server related.

Everything I just said is basically just like so Google and Yahoo and doesn't flag all that.

34:09

Yeah, pretty much they.

Think that you're legit.

Yeah, but yeah, it's and like, I think the guy, the guide covers all of that stuff, just like the little like.

So you're literally giving away the key to the Kingdom for free.

Yeah, yeah.

'Cause you know, I'm not going to follow.

Knowing good and well that out of out of 100 maybe five will do it themselves and you'll you'll not be their solution provider from a financial standpoint.

34:32

Yeah.

The others are going to get fed up with it and be like, you know what, Agree with this guy, knows what he's doing, let's.

Just let's just hire he expert, Yeah, because even even if I go and try to learn it, I might get good at it eventually.

But you're good at it now and I need results now if I'm if I'm a potential customer.

34:49

That's a good point.

Well, and also it's like, is it is the time you're going to sink into it worth it?

Like, Yeah.

Like, because the time it takes some people to implement like these strategies is, yeah, probably quadruple the time it would take me just because I've done it for so long.

35:06

Yeah.

You are the expert.

Same with us in editing a video.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, I could if you guys gave me a video to edit.

You'd probably be two 3-4 times as as lengthy to edit the same video.

And it still wouldn't be as good.

I like.

I will say like I if I edited a video because I've had to edit videos like in my lifetime and like the comparison between the two is just leaps and bounds different.

35:28

Like where like I if I edit a video like I want it to look like the way you guys edit videos right?

So realistically, I should have just been like, hey, hire professional, right?

Well, if I wanted to start an e-mail campaign, I want it to look like Beau's e-mail campaign.

And yes, maybe with a lot of time, blood, sweat and tears and frustrations, it'll get there.

35:47

But yeah, could get it today.

Yeah, I could go ahead and have results and have it be working for me versus me working trying to get it to work.

Yeah, well, I think I texted you an e-mail to.

Yeah, you did to just like, hey, just.

I mean, you've already you've already bashed me multiple times and just make it.

36:05

Public you might as.

Well, I'm just, I'm just trying to like did.

You send that first e-mail.

No, I just want you.

Know the one that I wrote for you?

Yeah, he gave me all the all the tools, right?

I mean, the ammo's right there.

I just got to put it into a format and and and hit send essentially are all people.

That's not true.

As horrible to work with as we are.

36:21

Absolutely not, No, no.

You guys aren't horrible to work with though.

You guys are pretty like normal as far as it like goes because No 10.

Somebody called us normal.

That's good.

Wow.

Most people, like, don't really like thinking about marketing.

36:37

Yeah, just that all it's it's it's almost like thinking about like, your taxes.

It's like.

There is a lot of thought though to to to be effective at it.

There's a lot of psychology.

There's a lot of like there There really is a lot to being effective at it.

And the issue is, is today, Oh my gosh, there are so many options that maybe you should be doing a lot if not all of like there are so many ways and it's it's so that's why that's exactly why we we stress niching and stuff like that.

37:13

Again I I introed you like we're all in content creation essentially.

At the end of the day I'm not a blog post writer.

I'm not an e-mail marketer.

I don't, I don't create lead magnets.

You don't edit videos and stuff like so it's like there's so much to to to do.

37:33

It's it's daunting and a lot of cases it's a paralysis by analysis thing.

People look at it and they're like, I don't know what to do, so I'm going to do nothing.

Yeah.

Well and even on even on a more granular level, I mean marketing, so we're all marketers but marketing also has to have the, the sidekick sales, you have to have sales and marketing together because at the end of the day once and this goes back again, I'm, I have a sales background.

37:56

I do not have a marketing background as a salesperson.

I rely on the marketer to essentially be my spearhead because I have to come in behind the marketing and then give the pitch and give the reasons as to why somebody should make a decision to trust me with essentially their dollars at that point in time.

38:12

If I'm if I'm offering a product or a service, but if they don't know that product or service exists, I can be the best sales guy in the world.

But they don't know about me, they'll they'll never find me without marketing.

So those two things have to go hand in hand and at the end of the day, we're all trying to do them all at the same time sometimes.

38:29

And it's difficult.

It's very difficult.

Yeah.

No, it's a well, yeah.

And marketing really just helps support sales.

It does.

I mean it makes.

They go hand in hand.

It makes the job.

Easier, you know, like they kind of know who they're talking to by the time you get them on the phone.

38:46

Yeah, it's, it's, I think it's an important thing to at least practice to some degree in your business.

Yeah, so.

We're going to talk about another archaic form of communication, and that's e-mail.

I don't know when the first e-mail was sent, but I know AOL was probably one of the first. 1994.

So you do know this?

No, I made that up.

39:02

Oh, well, I think you're close.

Yeah, I do believe you're close.

I've.

Seen a statistic on it?

But like, you think about all the forms of communication that have have came on since then, right?

Yeah, you've got SMS text messaging, you've got.

IMessage.

All the social medias and DMS and stuff like that e-mail, one of the oldest forms is still one of the most effective.

39:24

And this, this came from, this is there's there's been a recent shift social media wise.

And that's why I think that's why a lot of posts get squashed because like if you're sending them somewhere else, like externally, Oh yeah, they hate it.

Well, because here's the thing, they know what you're trying to do, but you're trying to do it for a number of reasons.

39:41

Like if someone says like, Oh, my Instagram account's got 100K followers, great yeah, what happens if that gets?

Hacked.

We're talking to you.

You.

Lose you?

You could possibly.

I lost access to a Facebook account that I'd had since I was a a senior in high school.

39:57

Again, thank you Meta.

I lost complete access to it.

Had to start from Ground Zero, son.

Of a gun.

Guess what you always own.

You always own that e-mail list.

True.

Yeah, and your website.

And your website so like.

So long as you continue to pay for the domain, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all those.

40:13

Things.

All things.

Considered, But you always own your e-mail list and so the the purpose and the effectiveness of e-mail marketing take it away.

Yeah.

I mean it's really just to stay top of mind with your like potential client, your current clients leads, just anyone who's opted in, yeah, But also it helps you curate content to them, OK.

40:39

And I think we're seeing kind of that shift a little bit more where people want like personally curated content.

OK.

I think MailChimp refers to it as the customer.

I do they they.

Have an ad for it because.

You don't want to be a customer.

40:55

Yeah, that goes.

This is, this is your one singular list of all of your clients, and they all have different needs and all these other things.

Because now they were MailChimp.

You can separate those people out and say I think that's what they're advertising they are.

You can set up different campaigns for different types of customers, which is.

41:11

Speak to the personal touch that you're referencing.

Yeah, and you can do that on like most, right, Right.

Like pretty much almost all the e-mail marketing rights.

If someone's like, I don't like MailChimp, just want to throw that out there, right?

I don't know any better because I'm not.

Used.

No, it's fine.

Yeah, I I think what we're seeing almost like a shift in marketing is like, social media's in a weird spot right now.

41:32

It's like, I every like algorithms.

Yeah, I go on Facebook and like, I'm seeing content of stuff I'm not subscribed to.

Yeah, you don't give a poop about it.

They're they're just assuming.

I like that.

And I'm like, that was really dumb.

Yeah.

And then I would like, hit the X and be like, don't show me this again.

41:50

Please don't show it to you again.

And so I think people will like kind of want the personal curated stuff that you can maybe find on different websites and different like e-mail newsletters.

And I think that's why we're getting kind of a comeback.

But also the owning of both of those pieces is important too, I think business owners and brands.

42:10

Well, you're in the driver's seat.

Here's here's one of our biggest frustrations and I know you probably experienced this on social media.

We've had a recent experience with on social media to where you have X amount of followers.

You want your content to get to all of them, ideally.

I mean, that's kind of the goal of having followers is you want all of your followers to see you.

42:30

Someone.

Elected someone elected to see you.

We've noticed recently that not all of our followers are seeing our content.

Actually, a very small amount of our followers is seeing our content and that's the most frustrating thing in the world.

42:46

Let's say for easy math purposes you got 1000 followers.

You might.

You look at your metrics and your insights and you're like. 0300 saw it. 303 hundred impressions.

Oh, and by the way, that breakdown even was even less than that.

Only 100 of your actual followers saw this 100.

43:02

Of my followers.

Wait a second.

Wait a second.

This is so backwards.

And I get we'll never going back to a chronological feed right.

Never getting back to the way that it was.

It can't.

I wish everybody's chasing TikTok like it's it's it's it's never going back.

But again the.

People wanted to see our stuff.

And now they're not.

And now they're not.

43:17

So to me, like with with e-mail marketing, you at that point in time become the algorithm.

You are your own algorithm and you know that whenever you create a piece of content, lead, magnet, blog, newsletter, whatever, you get to send it to as many or as few as you want to.

43:35

As long as they stay subscribed, which?

As long as they stay subscribed.

I'm saying you give them the unsubscribe option.

But I'm saying of the subscribers, if you want to send it to 100% of them, you know by George, it's going to 100% of those.

People see at least getting 100 inboxes.

Get to them, you know that.

You're the driver at that.

43:51

You are in the driver's seat.

You at least delivered it to your whole list.

Now, are they all going to open it?

Maybe not, no, but.

You know it.

Doesn't see it.

With Meta sometimes specifically, I feel like we're on a plane, that the pilot has taken some cocaine and we're just hoping that he gets us to the destination.

Yeah, you just you're kind of.

44:07

Shouting to avoid.

Us.

Yeah.

And I think, well, I also think like meta, like Facebook Pages, it's so much harder to get your content out there as compared to like like Instagram where or like LinkedIn even.

Yeah, yeah, it's easy, yeah.

LinkedIn doesn't pretty good job with it.

44:23

Yeah, it's.

I don't know why I think Facebook has just abandoned Facebook Pages, but it's it's.

Like I said, everybody's tough Everybody's and at an awkward phase right now.

Social media is weird, it is difficult and but but I think that further hits home the fact that like, you need to be doing e-mail marketing.

44:43

And so like, what would you say to someone who's like, I'm seeing these statistics?

Half the people didn't even open it.

I've sent this person an e-mail every week for five years and they've never bought da da da da da.

Yeah, but guess what?

44:59

They may reach out next week as a result of it all, because you're staying.

Top of mind, Top of mind.

That's the goal, right?

It's not perfect world.

Yeah, if you send it to 1000 people, you 1000 people call you tomorrow.

Like that's perfect.

I mean that perfect, right?

45:15

But that's not reality.

That's not the goal of even e-mail marketing.

No, I mean also like you said, like half the people like didn't open it, but then that means half the people did, right?

Like, there you go.

That means you just.

Get that glass half.

Full Yeah.

You just got in front of like let's just say your e-mail list is 1000.

45:34

Strong 500 you just got 500 people that just read something you wrote.

Maybe they skimmed it maybe they didn't care right.

But like that that's you can't do that by doing like 500 phone calls.

Well, but again, if if 500 of those people open it and then let's just say from that 500 people, 10% of those decide, you know what I need to reach out to, that's still 50.

45:58

Tell me where you can go today and generate 50 new conversations.

How long would it take you to make 500 phone calls?

I'll go ahead and tell you from experience, 500% visit time even. 500 phone calls and like even if you went to like a networking event.

Oh my gosh.

You can't talk to 500 people at a networking event.

46:16

No, I mean 50 people would be difficult like in a 2 hour time span like I to.

Have any quality of?

Yeah, to have a.

Quality conversation.

Well, the last networking event, the reason we're in this building right now, there were probably what, 70 to 100 folks present, maybe 50 then I was thinking 30, OK.

46:34

So from the 30, even out of a pool of 30 folks, we had what probably, I know conversations, conversations that I had that were more than just a hey, hi, how you doing?

Yeah, I.

Didn't get to talk to everybody, right?

I didn't.

Get to talk to everybody because we locked in on probably I'm going to say three.

46:51

Yeah, I personally locked in on three conversations.

I think you locked in probably on three to four as well.

But it's it's.

But they're quality.

Yeah, but like you can't.

You can't reach that volume.

No, no.

That's just not feasible.

It would take so long and so much effort versus the one e-mail.

47:12

Yeah, versus the list.

And yeah, and also to the point, like with e-mail marketing, it's a lot of people kind of go about it maybe a little wrong, maybe maybe not wrong.

If it's their business model, it's not something I would recommend people do, but they try to make it very salesy, right?

47:28

Every e-mail doesn't have to be a sales page.

Right.

Yeah.

Like, I like just kind of relax, have just like a normal conversation with that person.

I.

Like that.

Let's let's do a weekly e-mail.

Yeah, four in a month.

What's your ratio of like sales to fostering relationship?

47:45

Like what What?

What do you kind of strive for?

Yeah, good question.

Good question.

In all your emails you're going to want like a like call to action.

Yeah, but it didn't got to be in your face.

Yeah.

But then like let's say like you send three to four and then that like next one is kind of salesy where it's like, hey like just so you know, we're running a special on this or hey like if you want to revisit your like account, like let's talk about it.

48:12

You know, no obligation, right?

And it's just to really get them like back it.

Gets back into the phone, yeah.

Yeah.

So you're saying not every, not every e-mail needs to say we're dealing?

You know, yeah, yeah, they can if you want.

Oh, yeah.

I love those commercials, though.

I will say I.

Mean that's what they but.

48:28

Have you bought a car because of those commercials?

No, because that's what what brand is that?

We're dealing.

That's is that friendship thing.

Yeah, Listen.

I haven't because I'm a stubborn old hag like.

Jerry will never buy a new vehicle.

I'm on a new vehicle.

I.

I don't like the car buying process.

48:44

I hate that process.

So so my whole point though like OK e-mail marketing top of mind.

I have personally proven this point with a website called Motion VFX.

We bought some assets from them.

49:03

Quite a few.

And obviously, one of the things that you do when you create account is you you sign up, you you can opt out.

But I have gotten a weekly if not biweekly e-mail from them promoting this pack, promoting this transition.

Here's the thing, they are not the only person.

49:20

They're not the only entity that that provides video editing, assets, transitions, packs, all these things.

But when we needed a title pack the other day, I didn't even consider another entity.

Why?

49:36

Because I they were in my inbox.

Was it you probably couldn't Like, you probably could name one, but you probably could have named the one you went.

Oh, like it was already typed in.

The URL sends like. 8 emails a week because I've signed up with them on the business e-mail and then like 5 personal emails.

49:51

So I get duplicate emails from Motion VFX every single.

Week.

But that's the point.

So I get a weekly e-mail.

I might actually buy from them two or three times a year.

Yeah, and I think.

Maybe not Even so let's just say once a year.

Still pretty good model that's still effective.

50:06

Like work to work to return ratio that's that's that's good.

Yeah.

And I mean, one of the goals of e-mail marketing is kind of just remind people that you exist.

I'm still here.

Yeah 'cause, I mean.

Still in business?

Haven't gone to the Dollar General yet.

Yeah, I like how many people do you maybe talk to or like vet before you make a like buying decision?

50:27

Like when it comes to like home improvement stuff like you probably get like 3 to 4 quotes.

Right.

Well, yeah.

Well, in my recent re roofing experience, last year whenever our roof blew off the house, I I probably talked to, I would, yeah, probably between 5:00 and 10:00, yeah.

50:44

Yeah, roofing entities and like finally made a decision off the top of your head, could you like name?

You don't have to, but like could do you think you could name all the companies you talked to?

I could probably name three of them.

Yeah, and you probably gave your contact info every one of all of them, yeah.

51:00

Yep, and I still get e-mail marketing materials sent to me from most of them, right?

And like that's the kind of goal, but.

So next time I need a new roof again.

I don't even know that that's like so.

So an additional goal though we talked about it off camera.

Like.

51:18

Let's take the roof for example.

I don't need a roof right now.

I may not feasibly unless a weather act occurs.

I may not need one for another 15 years for a long time.

But guess what?

I talked to a lot of people.

Oh yeah.

At the Walmart, whatever.

I ran into Billy Bob, Yep.

51:35

And he's like, man, we just had some shingles blow off I need.

Gotcha, Billy Bob.

Dude, you should reach out to XYZ.

I gotcha, Billy Bob.

They're on my top of mind.

Yep, they're in my inbox.

They're not Billy Bob's inbox.

They're in my inbox, Billy Bob.

But now they're top of mind to me.

51:52

Maybe they just made a sale as a result of that.

Referral, Referral.

I've worked with people that have been very happy with their service.

But, like, I actually don't remember their name.

Yeah, it was like, five years ago.

Yeah.

I'm a different person now.

52:07

Yeah.

I I don't remember the plumber that came to my, like, home five years ago.

Right.

I know who came to my house like a year ago.

Right.

But I even don't get, like, contact or communication with them.

And I just think like.

Dang, they're missing out.

52:23

I know I was like what?

What happened?

Like if I if.

If I don't have a problem for the next two years, I'm going to forget, yeah.

About you stop missing out.

Yeah, absolutely.

Definitely not top of mind in the plumbing industry for you.

Yeah, No.

And that's that's just like in a loose example, but it's like it's kind of just true.

52:40

But if he was sending me like even like a quarterly newsletter of like proper home maintenance for, you know, like it's like maybe winterize your like pipes or hey, just so you know, it's getting cold.

So if just make sure you're like, something's running, there you go.

52:57

It's like simple things and it's like, oh, thanks, yeah.

Well, yeah, you feel taken care, taken care of at that point time.

We we've talked about this with a few of our other guests.

People absolutely love feeling catered to.

Yeah.

Especially especially if they're already a customer.

Yeah, people want to know that you give a Dang about them after they've paid their initial money to you and you're done with your service.

53:18

They want to know that you still care about them.

Yeah, and one of the greatest ways to do that is to keep contact with them.

Again, roofing.

Yeah, short of a weather anomaly, that's not a that's not a yearly purchase, right?

It's a.

Like, every 30 years, right?

Yeah.

I mean so it's like.

But as a roofer, even if we're going on that example, like as a homeowner, I think that I would find it to be pretty cool if my roofer called me 12 months from now and said, hey, how you doing?

53:42

We'd just like to inspect our work again.

Now maybe that's not cost effective for them.

I don't know the roofing industry that well.

But as a homeowner, I'm saying if they called me a year from now and said, can we just do an inspection on your roof, make sure everything is as it was when we left it, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, thanks.

But on the e-mail side of things, it could be easily easy.

54:00

Easy things like come come fall time, easiest way to clean your gutters, To clean your gutters, you know whatever right?

But like, again, just top of mind, they're building rapport with you.

They, you know what I'm saying?

Like so their trust is being built.

It's it's like, Oh my gosh, I was a client to them, but now I feel like more.

54:18

Yeah.

And and and you.

Are well you are more they're putting they're putting extra effort in that.

That was one of the things that we used to do my my wife and our other industry, she used to send clients thank you cards, which, yeah, after they become a customer, we would send them a thank you card.

And then we also started at one point in time doing birthday cards every year for people.

54:37

And those are two touches that that folks get that they didn't ask for, but they feel good when they get that.

I've actually had people call me on that, say, hey, I got your card, thank you for thanking me.

Yeah, no, it's it's like the little things that kind of add up to a lot.

But yeah, email's really good way.

54:54

I mean, it's not the only way, right?

It's a good way.

It's a cheap way to, that's true.

Well, again, I like it.

I like it a lot.

Because you are the driver.

You're not.

You're not the guy on the plane just praying the pilot get you there.

You are the pilot at that point in time.

55:10

Yeah.

I mean, I think there's a lot of benefits to just e-mail marking as a whole and.

So how do you?

This is just a one off question that I have.

How do you feel?

Let's, let's say we wanted to integrate, maybe a hybrid approach, because one thing that I am a personal believer in, I do believe to an extent in paid ads.

55:33

I've seen them work.

I know that they work for people, but how do you integrate what you do into like a paid ad situation as well?

Yeah, well, so really all this stuff like e-mail marketing would support the paid ads because you're paying for that, like contact.

55:51

OK.

So then you're you're getting them on the back end then once they come in from the ad?

Yeah.

And that's that's actually why I tell people like e-mail marketing is important because if you have like a list of leads, yeah, Unless you, you know, found them like through the Yellow Pages, right.

Which I don't think people use anymore.

56:06

No, unless.

Unless we don't.

Here's Motion Creative Media.

I can tell you we do not.

Yeah.

No, I mean, unless you found them through like the Yellow Pages, you paid for that lead either through like social credit, paid ad or like content you've made and they might not have bought right then and then.

56:29

But if you're not, then keeping them in like an e-mail nurture, they will go somewhere else.

Yeah, they'll fall cold.

Yeah, they'll fall.

They'll be like, I'm and I'm not ready for this yet, right.

And then two years later, when they're ready to, like, start their search again, thinking about no idea who I've given my e-mail to, yeah, they're going to click, Do you want to do it again?

56:49

Yeah.

For another company.

Yeah.

So paid ads, I mean, I think paid ads are important.

It's most businesses I would recommend have a strategy of.

Like funnel of all.

Yeah.

Like the inbound organic which would be like the content and then the inbound like paid should be advertising and then just making sure you have like an e-mail nurture sequence that supports that.

57:12

Yeah, which I think too, a lot of people have a misunderstanding.

I I think all all of those cost you something.

You know, paid ads, they may cost you dollars on the upfront, but any marketing that you do cost you something.

I mean, even with e-mail marketing, it's either going to cost you your time to do it or if you pay a professional to do it, it's going to cost you.

57:29

With the professional.

Same thing with content.

It's going to cost you your time or if you have a content creator, it's going to cost you money.

So all marketing cost something, right?

Oh, I mean, it just comes down to like what is what is worth it to you and your business model at that point in time?

57:47

Yeah.

And that's, I mean, you know, time or money, that's kind of the things.

The two commodities investing in, yeah, the two commodities.

I just.

I don't know.

I still keep.

I keep coming back to like you.

You own your e-mail list.

Right.

Yeah.

I mean, you can take that anywhere.

58:04

If you get like blacklisted from somehow every e-mail marketing platform out there, you still have Excel and you can go into Gmail and type them away.

You sure can.

Yeah, but you.

Could go gorilla, those gorilla e-mail.

58:20

Yeah, likely that won't happen, yeah.

But you never know it.

Can.

You could be Rambo.

BEAU.

Rambo.

Yeah.

See what?

You did there.

That'll be my new.

Logo.

There you go.

So so.

58:35

Superimpose your face on Stallone.

Yeah, just that could be your new lead magnet.

Yeah, just let Rambo handle your e-mail marketing.

Oh.

Kill the competition.

Oh, see.

What you did there, yeah.

That's quite the case.

I dig that.

I dig that.

That's catchy for sure.

58:52

Yeah.

I think I guarantee you there are businesses who various mean through various means that they didn't even realize they're probably sitting on massive gold mines of e-mail lists.

Oh yeah, I've, I've and they don't even.

Realize it.

Yeah, I mean, I have people who sit like, tell me, like, I don't really have an e-mail list.

59:10

And I'm like, what do you mean you don't have an e-mail list?

That sounds like what we told you.

Yeah, well, no.

Everyone tells me that, like, I don't really.

I've not done a good job captioning like, OK, like, what's the number like?

Some people will be like, oh, like 60 or like I have 100.

Or like I have 200 and I'm like.

That's pretty good start.

59:26

That's still.

Like, I mean six, yeah, 60 people again, Where can you go for 60 people?

Yeah, that's.

I mean it's all can we.

Have a conversation with 60 people.

Yeah, where can you go talk to 60 today?

No.

Yeah.

And I mean, 60 people that gave you their e-mail, yeah, they they want to hear from you.

59:43

And they want to talk to you.

Yeah, it's it's amazing.

Yeah.

Yeah, there's and, well, I.

Think of like I think of just even mom and pop businesses who at some point you had to write an e-mail address down for for some sort of sign up process.

They're not even thinking of it, but like, yeah, think about how many e-mail addresses you have.

1:00:00

Well, it's like I if a business calls me, I I don't want to hear from them, right.

Like, you know, I gave them my number, but they're like, anyway you give us like, I don't know, this is too much for me.

Yeah, they text me.

Full fast pace.

1:00:16

Little better.

Yeah, Little better, little better. e-mail me.

It's like, OK, this is at my own time.

It's socially acceptable.

Sit down.

Yeah, it is.

And like, I'm not saying don't call or text, but I'm just saying like the it's very unintrusive to receive an e-mail.

1:00:34

A little more respectful of their time, like all of these things, right?

Again, socially, it is far more acceptable to get that e-mail.

It's a touch, It's just not a weird touch.

Yeah, yeah.

It's just like a hey, a solicited touch.

Yeah.

And also like, the emails can be pretty simple.

1:00:49

It could just be like, hey, just checking on you like, is there anything I can do for you?

Yeah.

Well, so I like your breakdown that you gave us earlier.

You know the the ratio of like a quote quote traditional sales e-mail versus the other ones being just either educational, nurturing whatever that that's a good ratio.

1:01:07

I think you mentioned basically what like a a 2575 ish out of every four emails, maybe one BAA pitch to a degree.

Yeah.

And, like, it could be like a, it could be a hard pitch.

It could be like a medium pitch.

But, like, all your emails are gonna have some form of, like, a pitch, right.

1:01:24

Just.

But it it'll be different.

Yeah.

Call to action and, like, that'll look different.

Maybe it's just like, hey, like, maybe it's offering them another lead magnet.

Right.

Just getting them into that, like, cycle.

And, like, that could be on every e-mail.

Yeah.

But, like, you know, like, OK, I think they're into this, right?

1:01:43

Yeah.

No, it's like.

Dating.

And I know there is and we talked about it earlier where business owners may be a little nervous.

Oh yeah, there's hesitancy for sure.

Like a lot of people are like, I don't want to spam my list.

And I'm like, you know, who doesn't care about spamming their list?

1:02:00

Yeah, your competition.

They're doing it now.

Also true.

Yeah, But also, you're not spamming them if you're sending it once a week, right?

And it's purely educational content, right?

They're like, oh, cool, like, this is nice, people think.

Of value.

I think they would appreciate that.

1:02:15

Yeah, I mean, people unsubscribe.

I've gotten some very colorful feedback from people.

We're responding, like got got one for a client I was running and they were I I won't use the word they used, but they were like, stop sending me your crap emails.

1:02:35

Yeah, that was the.

Hey bud, there's an unsubscribe button.

And I was like you gave us your e-mail like we like you opted into this and it's so funny, but I'm like, that's like the stuff like that's normal the.

The crap the the the crappy and funny part to me though is it took more effort on that persons behalf than it would have for them to just unsubscribe.

1:02:58

Yeah.

Yeah, I was like.

It literally took so much more effort for them to compose and respond to your e-mail than it did for them to hit the.

Subscribe button.

In a lot of unsubscribe button cases, they will ask you for comments.

I don't have to.

You don't have to.

1:03:13

You don't.

But those are all voluntary.

They are voluntary and some people take that liberty and volunteer their time and their keyboard.

Powers, this person replied to.

The e-mail?

Oh, there's one of the e-mail.

OK.

Oh yes, they.

To the e-mail.

Yeah, they just replied to the e-mail and I was like and said.

1:03:29

Quit sending me your emails and that's why I'm like.

Just don't subscribe.

I didn't leave a comment in the unsubscribe.

No.

OK, I got you.

I wish because actually.

They took time to hit reply.

Now I typed.

Out an e-mail and hit send.

Good job, idiot.

It's actually more annoying.

People do that just because it's like, God, I got to go in and do this manual.

1:03:46

Yeah, like this is going to say like I wish you would have just unsubcribe subscribe.

Like you can still reply.

I was going to say you can still leave a comment though.

In the unsubscribe domain, they always ask for feedback.

Yeah, but it was like and that stuff you're going to.

You're going to deal with it, you deal with it, you deal with it on social media and and the whole thing is like, I'm just how how easy is it to just scroll right past it or hey, maybe unfollow the person, Yeah.

1:04:12

Like it's you.

Don't have to be the troll in there you don't like.

It's it's so easy.

To Although I will say good TV needs a little bit of drama, and sometimes I like reading those comments because it's good humor for me.

Yeah, I mean, I was it was actually, it was great because I was like, this is the most exciting thing that's happened to me.

1:04:31

Exactly.

It's like, it's a little bit of a hit.

It's like, OK, this is fun.

Something's happening today.

Because that happened.

That's happened twice in like maybe two years.

So like it never really happens that often.

And like I've sent like I think I did the math.

Popping the knuckles like listen here Richard, let me top.

1:04:48

Oh yeah, well, I did the I did the math for 2023.

I sent for like one account alone.

I sent 135,000 emails over the year.

Wow.

That's all the contacts, right?

Like, yeah.

Yeah, that's like, I mean that's just like total.

1:05:04

Yeah, total, but I got you.

I was like, wow, that's that's a lot.

Yeah, 'cause I was doing, I was checking how many times I got.

What frequency was that though?

Once a week?

Once a week?

Once a week.

So once a week was actually.

Once a week, mathematically, was actually.

1:05:21

Easy on your math, you've been. 52 emails though, right?

Am I good there?

52 emails?

Yeah, but you reached how many people?

What was it?

135 K.

That's how many like emails got sent out.

But it was like 2000 every time, yeah.

But it was one campaign.

1:05:37

That's that's 135,000 potential touches.

Yeah, yeah, I mean it was it's, it's.

Where Like again, where else can you?

Do that in comparison to my e-mail blast last year, I would say my in the words of Matthew McConaughey.

1:05:54

McConaughey.

Minor rookie numbers.

Got to get those up.

I think also I mean it also depends on the account for because not every like business to business isn't going to have.

I mean, it might, but it's probably not going to have like 4000 contacts, right?

1:06:10

Business to business is different than business.

To consumer, sure.

There's definitely like fewer people in a business to business account.

Yeah, which is what you want.

Well, there are less businesses than there are humans, yeah.

Than there are.

Mathematically, again, going back to the math thing that's I do, I will step out on that pesto and make that make that I can claim.

1:06:29

When I think there's even probably fewer in the niche you'd serve too.

Oh yeah, also true.

So it's well.

Because it's a niche you.

You intentionally made it specific and small.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can.

I can understand that.

I can't think of a single industry, though, that would not benefit from e-mail marketing, yeah.

No, I truly.

1:06:47

I can't.

I I have like conversations with people who are like like my industry is boring and I'm like, no one wants to hear about it.

I'm like, Are you sure?

Like, it might sound boring.

Yeah, but you've got customers, Yeah.

The audience you cultivate probably wants to hear.

1:07:03

Say they they chose to be there, which means they want to be there.

Yeah, like.

Every business solves a problem.

That's why they're in business.

Yeah, you changed my mind again.

Until until we had met you and Jared mentioned our our initial contact with you.

I I thought that they were dead.

Blogs, e-mail, marketing, all of that stuff.

1:07:20

I was like, no, no way.

But you, you even changed this, This dude's mind.

No.

Yeah, that's fair.

I mean, I and I, I just kind of like tell people like what I think.

Yeah.

I don't even try to convince people.

I'm just like you're either going to, like, resonate with this or not.

How many times have you been just you may not even realize it though.

1:07:38

This is this is the thing that I think a lot of people probably overlook and don't realize it just in general.

It's like, how many times have you cancelled a service six months down the road?

You get that e-mail.

Hey, we're offering you a 15% discount to come back SiriusXM.

1:07:54

Not perfect.

I have personally re upped with Sirius before like.

Hulu.

Oh yeah, Hulu's big too, but.

Think about that I I wasn't like searching to to to to become a satellite radio subscriber again, but. $1.99 for the whole year signed me up.

1:08:11

But that all happened because of an.

E-mail campaign?

Yeah, I mean, they they could have paid.

Oh, and Sirius.

Sirius is very crafty too, because throughout the year, at certain months throughout the year, they'll give you free serious.

For 30 days you don't even realize it, but you're in your car and you flip over the channel that you thought wasn't going to work.

1:08:30

And it works like I see what you're doing serious.

They're cultivating their relationship.

They're like giving me free value.

Because of e-mail.

Though giving it to you and.

So like it's it's something that a lot of people have have not, I'll not call fell victim to, but like you've proven that the system works and they didn't even realize it.

1:08:47

They didn't even realize it.

Yeah.

Well, and also it's like, I mean the whole marketing, if it like works, it probably didn't feel like marketing, right?

It's.

Probably just like.

I don't feel sold, dude.

I like.

That, yeah.

You're like, I I wanted this like the, I mean, it's like a little bit of convincing on their part, but like not a lot like because everyone's had that like you've probably been in like a sales situation where you maybe bought something like I didn't want that.

1:09:15

Yep.

This kind of sucks.

Yeah.

Ours remorse is big.

Yeah, yeah, for a lot of people.

Right.

But like I mean if they click on an e-mail and sign.

Up.

Well, there's a lot of intention that goes into that.

Like you have to have a pretty Dang good amount of intention to follow through from an e-mail chain.

1:09:31

Yeah, there's.

I mean, there's a lot of strands to pull from emails, but honestly, it's just a good way to stay in contact with people without needing their phone number or sending the mail.

Well, again, it's a it's a very consented touch.

The e-mail is very consensual.

1:09:47

And I mean, I have had like just times where I see people are like, I don't want to give my e-mail out, but then they'll give like their phone number and address.

And I'm like you.

You'd rather me have your home you.

Want me to show up to your house?

Yeah, like I will with this.

1:10:03

Sign in your yard.

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's crazy what people will and won't do.

I mean, I I I have purposely because I understand the back end of it.

I have purposely avoided like signing up for things.

Here's the other thing.

I don't like it again.

1:10:21

Yeah.

That first e-mail comes out, I can unsubscribe like it's it's I needed your service.

The only way I could get it was through an e-mail.

So yeah, I was there.

But like, even like, you can just unsubscribe and that's going to happen.

Like you're not going to have 100% retention.

But here's the other thing, If you're doing your lead magnets, if you're doing your blogs to drive people to your website, all these things you're going to ultimately be capturing more and they want to be there and they want to be there.

1:10:46

So yeah, people need to be taking advantage of all of these older style mediums that maybe a lot of people think are dead because they are not and they are still very, very, very effective.

Yes, if you got nothing else from today that's that's, that's that's the big thing.

1:11:03

Well, so if you did get something from today, if this has resonated with you Beau, what are, what are our actionable steps?

How can we find you?

How can we find you if I'm?

A new business?

But if I'm a new business interested in what we've just talked about, how can we get a hold of Bo?

1:11:19

Because Bo knows he.

Does yeah, you can just go to my website bobcontent.com.

Link in description below.

We'll throw that in there.

Or shoot me an e-mail info bobcontent there.

You go link in description below.

And then, yeah, I mean, I'm on LinkedIn and website, yeah.

1:11:39

That's got a laundry list of ways to get a hold of you then.

But like, he's not hiding folks.

He's not hiding, no.

Yeah, I would say some maybe good steps for people to take after today is maybe start a blog.

Yeah yeah, super simple.

Get your e-mail list together and then just think of 1 lead magnet that you would like to give people.

1:11:59

Yes, there you go.

I like that.

Those are good, actionable steps, Jared.

Our listeners also have an actionable step that they can come forward with if they want to help the podcast.

Yeah.

What are those things, Jared?

Well we love feedback of all sorts and cons and and and facets.

1:12:16

So leave us a review.

Good about.

Leave us a comment.

We read everyone.

Yep, even the bad kids.

Good or bad.

Yeah, good or bad.

Can't fix something and I don't know it's broken.

Bingo.

Leave us a review.

Give us a rating.

If someone again going back to you may not be the buyer, you probably know someone who could take advantage of e-mail marketing and you're like, oh dude, I bet you this person's not doing it.

1:12:41

Send it to them.

Send them the contact info.

This is what we want to do.

We want to help people and we think that the ways we do it are very effective.

Well, we think that the way Bo does, it could be effective for you as well.

Yeah, I'll try Stars and bars, folks.

Reach out.

Reach.

Out.

1:12:56

Give us a review.

Leave some feedback.

Share it with somebody who you think may be able to take advantage of it.

And follow the podcast.

Oh, thank you for that.

Yeah, faith in frames.

Faith in frames.

There you go.

Motion Creative Media production.

1:13:11

Bo, I appreciate your time today, man.

Thanks for coming in on this frigid.

Oh my gosh.

I think the high is 21 today it's code.

Frigid wintry day.

I appreciate you for taking your time to embrace the elements with us.

Yeah.

Thanks for having.

Me.

Thanks for creating Appalachia again.

1:13:26

Yes, Donating the space.

Letting us shoot the cast here.

Yes.

Digging it.

Jared.

Let's go.

Here's the hard part.

Oh no.

We'll just see you later.

OK, catch you the next one, we'll see you.

See you bye.